Ming

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Ming

Post by CyndeB on Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:47 pm

I think Ming's number is up and he's going to bite the dust so to speak. Don't know if the Arrows will do it or if Kaleb will just have him "rehabilitated". But I think his days are numbered.

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Re: Ming

Post by Katherine on Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:15 pm

Definitely! But who will end up replacing him?

I think its going to be one of the Dark River Psy. Maybe Ashaya since Faith and Sascha's parents are already on Council.
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Re: Ming

Post by Rageane on Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:44 am

Why would you think that Katerine? Personally I think that Walker has the potential to step in too, or possibly a Forgotten...of course that is IF the net stays intact, which I don't.

I think that the net is going to split in half creating a civil war between the Pure Psy and the rest of the race for dominance, and the Pure Psy is going to die a seriously bloody death because the other races are going to side with the non-pures of the race.


Last edited by Rageane on Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:48 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : completed my thought)
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Re: Ming

Post by Katherine on Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:13 am

I think Ashaya would be more acceptable to the general Psy population because of how she blew the whistle on the Implant Protocol. Unless Walker has done something noteworthy in his own right, they aren't going to know him from Adam.
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Re: Ming

Post by whynot9 on Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:27 am

If the PsyNet stays intact, then whoever replaces Ming would need to be a part of it, and Ashaya and Walker are not anymore (but see below for another theory). Maybe Anthony has someone who could fill the spot. I do think some chaotic things will be happening with the PsyNet though, and so who knows? I just want Ming to die as painfully as possible for what he did to Katya!

Another thought... if neither Kaleb or Anthony is the Ghost, then the Ghost could be who replaces Ming.

I really think though, that things are going to get so chaotic with the split in the PsyNet (Pure Psy vs. everyone else) that the Psy Council as we know it now will cease to exist. What replaces it I have no idea. Since the world *is* made up of 3 different races, maybe having all 3 represented on the new 'Psy Council' would make sense. I think the Human Alliance would really like to see something like that happening, but the changelings are split up into so many different groups, how would they choose their person/people? Plus having to meet physically could be a problem. (Unless they conference called or whatever the equivalent is, hmm...)

Anyhow, it'll be fascinating to see how this all plays out.


Last edited by whynot9 on Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : unclear grammar)

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Re: Ming

Post by Katherine on Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:40 am

I don't think Ming will be replaced anytime soon after his demise either. There is simply nobody who would be acceptable to both sides. Ironically, Ming is the closest thing they have to a neutral party.

Who says that every member of the Psy Council must be in the Psy Net? They could have face-to-face meetings, no?

there might also be a way to enter into a net without being apart of it. The PsyNet may be closed but it hasn't always been that way. It could open back up.
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Re: Ming

Post by CyndeB on Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:24 am

I'm thinking there is going to have to be an E that shows up on the Council at some point. In BoJ it says the Dark Mind knows the E's have to be "awakened" (paraphrase) to save the Net? So I think it's going to have to be an E. Hmmmm.....

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Re: Ming

Post by degdelta on Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:24 pm

don't forget that the Arrows have a candidate in mind - Aden.

personally, i don't think of Ming as 'neutral' (lol).

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Re: Ming

Post by Katherine on Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:15 pm

I think they were considering Aden for the position of Lead Arrow, not Councilor. The Lead Arrow (or whatever their leader is called) is not automatically a councilor. It just so happens that Ming was.

I think Ming might be the closest thing they have to a neutral party because he is an Arrow. The Arrow team was created by the people who invented Silence. This ought to make Ming an automatic member of the Pro Silence faction. But he's not because he doesn't like PurePsy's racism.

He doesn't want to see Silence fall, but he doesn't like PurePsy. That makes him a neutral party. Well, sorta.

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Re: Ming

Post by tabitha on Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:03 am

I'm convinced Ming leading the Arrows is over, Aden seems their most likely new leader as Nalini has already hinted at this.

I'm convinced both he and Vasic have greater roles to play in the future so maybe one of them could be councillor although I'm not convinced Vasic is truly silent.

In BOJ Faiths father said the silence is falling so technically one of the DarkRiver Psy or even Walker could become a councillor.

My bet is fellow Psy rebel, the guy who is Keenans fake father.
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Re: Ming

Post by Katherine on Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:25 pm

I hadn't considered Zi Zen, but you're right, he is an excellent candidate.
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Re: Ming

Post by CyndeB on Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:21 pm

I do think though that for someone to be a Council member they have to be "plugged in" to the Net. I don't see Lucas or Vaughn allowing that for their mates. And I don't think one of the Judd's would chance coming out of hiding and outing the children.

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Re: Ming

Post by ConvertMePlease on Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:16 am

Katherine, Ming may have been an arrow but they no longer consider him the leader since he was using them to further his own gain. Also, I seem to recall that the leader of the arrows has always been a counciler and that is why, when they were talking about who would replace Ming if/when he died, they mentioned Kaleb. I think if they picked another arrow, not already on the council, they would have to find a way to place him there. Just my thoughts on the subject.

Ps. I think if anyone would/could take out Ming permanently, it would have to be one of the Arrow. Otherwise Ming could potentially survive it and now with the council split they would all be watching for it and be even more careful.
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Re: Ming

Post by CyndeB on Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:35 am

ConvertMePlease, I'd really like to read all your comments but your picture covers part of them, could you resize it?

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Re: Ming

Post by Katherine on Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:08 pm

ConvertMePlease wrote:Katherine, Ming may have been an arrow but they no longer consider him the leader since he was using them to further his own gain. Also, I seem to recall that the leader of the arrows has always been a counciler and that is why, when they were talking about who would replace Ming if/when he died, they mentioned Kaleb. I think if they picked another arrow, not already on the council, they would have to find a way to place him there. Just my thoughts on the subject.

You may be right about how the Lead Arrow is always a councilor. I don't recall reading that, but its been a while since I last read all the books in order.


Ps. I think if anyone would/could take out Ming permanently, it would have to be one of the Arrow. Otherwise Ming could potentially survive it and now with the council split they would all be watching for it and be even more careful.

I suspect that Ming is a lot more vulnerable now than he was before Katya shot him in the head.
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Re: Ming

Post by degdelta on Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:03 pm

i've been re-reading the series from the beginning, trying to pay attention to clues given that made no sense at the time but are now beginning to pay off.

have just finished BoM and have one question - the arrows think Ming has betrayed them somehow. i tried to identify what he did but can't - it is mentioned that he's quarantined 7 Arrows as they are going off of Jax, but the conversation that Aden and Vasic have toward the end of the book (p. 356) indicates that Arrows have been eliminated by Ming for the sake of power. however, in chapter 47, p. 312, he gives no indication that he's eliminated any of them, though he might do so.

could it be that his mind has been 'hacked' and the Arrows know what he intends, or have i missed something?

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Re: Ming

Post by degdelta on Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:06 pm

re-reading the Aden-Vasic conversation they definitely state that Ming is responsible for Arrow Deaths. there are supposed to be about 200 of them but are now under 160.

what's up???!!!

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Re: Ming

Post by MMx4 on Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:24 pm

[quote="ConvertMePlease"]Katherine, Ming may have been an arrow but they no longer consider him the leader since he was using them to further his own gain. Also, I seem to recall that the leader of the arrows has always been a counciler

I recall differently that the leader has NOT always been a councilor just another arrow it was just that Ming was both.

Also re what Ming did was that he used them for his own personal gain. The Arrows are fine to take orders if it keeps the net, silence and Psy safe and if that co-incides with the personal stuff for their leader thats fine even if it means killing other Arrows BUT Ming did not stick to these rules and got rid of arrows and ordered them to do stuff that was not for the "greater good" and thats why Ming is now arrow leader-non-gratia
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Re: Ming

Post by kooritsuki on Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:43 am

Girls, I recall the Arrows pledging their loyalty (secretly) to Kaleb, so Aden won't be the next leader for the Arrows. It'd be Kaleb.

The Arrows wanting to get rid of Ming is because he betrayed them, somehow. I have an impression that it's because Ming does not take care of his Arrows when they are no longer useful. Arrows take care of each other, they are not supposed to dispose of their fellow members when they are no long useful, or due to one reason or another (ie. Jax or injuries). But Ming seems to have done that, along with not using the Arrows for the greater good and maintaining Silence.
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Re: Ming

Post by degdelta on Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:54 am

i think i've finally figured out why Aden and Vasic are not happy with Ming anymore. i believe it's because of the continued failed campaigns against the changelings. Many have died in a very short period of time due to their inability to correctly assess the strength and intelligence of their perceived foe. that marks Ming further as a bad leader.

i also believe that the Arrow squad is split - those who have been completely 'reset' by jax and those who removed themselves off it and have retained at least a modicum of humanity. we've probably seen some of those jax'd Arrows under the ultimate command of Henry Scott.


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Re: Ming

Post by Rageane on Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:49 am

To be honest, I don't see the losing battle with the changelings having any kind of impact on the Arrows at all. They are focused on the losing battle with the Jax usage and also with the on-coming fall of Silence. The see Ming as a liability and a fallen leader because he had promised to stop the Jax treatments, and then kept using it on them secretly...HELLO, who wouldn't want him dead after that leaked out?!? Then when one of their people short circuits and needs to be "Rehabbed" or "Erased" who has to do it...The Arrows. They see the unspoken bloodshed and carnage of a fallen psy first hand, with no explanation as to why it happened or if the cycle will stop...then on top of all that Ming decides that he wants to start a race war with the Forgotten, and the changelings just because he is power hungry...correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the desire for power expressing feelings? They are the protectors of the ideals of the psy people...not the protectors of the ideals of one man's megalomania.
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Re: Ming

Post by tabitha on Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:08 am

I agree that the Arrows have split into those like Vasic and Aden who are not under Mings control or on jax and those who had the implants and are loyal to the Pure Psy.

They state that they are not loyal to Ming as he has had Arrows killed and a true Arrow never leaves another Arrow behind and that an Arrow shouldn't use the Arrows for personal gain.

They signal to Kaleb that they are no longer under Mings control and that they would like to form an allegance not that they want him to lead them.

There are only two candidates mentioned Vasic (who states he doesn't want to lead) and Aden as the most stable of the Arrows.

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Re: Ming

Post by Katherine on Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:26 pm

Rageane wrote:isn't the desire for power expressing feelings?

I think so too. I think its one of the great ironies of the Psy. They aren't allowed to be happy or excited. So, subconsciously, they take all of the energy that would generate those feeling and channel it into the one semi-positive thing they are allowed to feel: ambitious. Likewise they take all of the negative emotional energy and channel it into ruthlessness.
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