The Mating Bond problem

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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Lulu2011 on Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:53 pm

Well, Adria is a maternal dominant with a protective streak so deep that that led her to become a soldier. She is not nearly as dominant as Indigo or Mercy. She's likely to continue to work with the young kids and straddle both worlds, have a foot in each camp as she said, being the soldier that can really look out for the young ones and see to their training. But she's not sentinel or lieutenant material.

Adria also was directly reporting to Riaz when they were on anchor detail. Her relationship with Riaz in relation to the hierarchy is different than Mercy's with Riley or Indigo with Drew. Mercy doesn't report to Riley. Indigo doesn't report to Drew. (And, remember, Indigo gave Drew huge grief and basically broke up with him for questioning her orders.) So, for Adria, it would have been inappropriate to question an order in a situation where Riaz is in charge, especially over something like being assigned the outside vs. the inside.

So, I think she'd have been out of line to question him. In her way, she did push back though: she narrowed her eyes, made that comment about knowing what he was up to in order to let him know that she was on to him and his protectiveness. To me, it was a single paragraph just to show that Riaz was feeling protective of her and to set him up as the one inside so that he could be the one injured. And, afterward, after he was almost killed, it was insignificant to her so there was no reason to bring it up.
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:47 am

Which brings back the point why didn't he discuss it with her when they had the opportunity, she had said she hasn't read the brief or something and was scanning it on her datapad on their ride there. He's a lieutenant, it goes without saying that he had planned ahead how they'll handle the anchor duty, he will not jeopardize her safety, his or their charge's by not doing so. So why not discuss what he wanted done?

This is from page 331, a few chapters before that anchor protection thing.
It took conscious effort to think past his protective instincts, to understand that when a man chose a strong woman for his own, he made a commitment to nurture and respect that strength. Adria would never allow him to coddle her—but as Sienna didn’t fight Hawke’s need to ensure her safety, Adria allowed Riaz to hold her, trusted him to take care of her in a hundred small ways that soothed his wolf.
Chp 66 was a prime time to make good of that commitment, to show he trusts or at least respects her strength by discussing the matter beforehand, but he pulled rank instead. Evil or Very Mad
Adria trusted him to take care of her, the least he can do is give her a voice, a say in the matters that concern her. By effectively silencing her, even if it's to protect her as he sees fit, it shows an unwillingness to 'negotiate',to meet her halfway, in other words, the root of communication problems.

Adria's wolf wasn't happy when Judd and Riaz sandwiched her between them, in Venice. Their protectiveness didn't sit well with her back then. She may not be lieutenant or sentinel but she's dominant enough to make senior soldier. Still, that wasn't the point, I can accept that she's a generous lady willing to bend for her man, but nothing excuses Riaz's actions in my eyes.

This maternal dominant thing is beginning to confuse me. I don't know if she's a dominant who bristles at being protected or a maternal whose wolf needed to feel safe. A schizo wolf and it's that damned Riaz's fault! cyclops

Seriously tho, that rank thing? It was as if Nalini is confirming Adria's pov when she thought of their relationship as unbalanced on the most fundamental level.Sad
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Lulu2011 on Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:15 am

Well, gotta say that it was one paragraph at the beginning of Chapter 66 out of 420 pages and it just didn't occur to me at all that he was being disrespectful. I thought it was more an example of him being a dominant lieutenant with macho Latin blood lol! Overall, I just don't see him wanting to protect her and keep her safe as being a bad thing in that instance.

ETA: There was also a few times in the book where Riaz is wondering about Adria's dominant status. A maternal dominant like Adria is really rare and so he may have been slightly confused about her. His instincts would scream protection at him if she were a submissive or less dominant wolf so a maternal dominant (which she only confirmed she was at the very end) would likely be confusing to both him and his wolf.

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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:41 pm

Nah, I don't question his need to protect her, it was how he did it.
He would have gotten the same result without making it a situation where she couldn't argue or compromise, a one way communication, that's what he did.

The rank thing was just one of every instances where Riaz was being pushy and overbearing, it only made him look bad in my eyes. Their story rolled out in a way where he always had the upper hand. Yes, he's dominant like every other men in the books, but unlike those men, when the time came to show the vulnerable side of the alpha hero, the biggest emotional impact did not come from the heroine, but from the 'other woman'. Twice.

When he saw Lisette again, he and his wolf was wounded. But when Adria left him, he was freaking mad, as in angry mad. Not wounded, not hurt, it wasn't his heart that shattered into a million pieces, it was Adria's.
Ferdy has mentioned this too...about how Riaz 'died' when he found Lisette couldn't be his, but didn't seem to suffer as much when Adria left him.
I don't know what I'm looking for, actually. Maybe a scene with him on his knees begging her not to leave him would have done nicely lol. Nah, j/k. It won't do for the pack to see their lieutenant in a humiliating position.
But, I'd be happier if he was gripped by strong emotional pain, one that was much worse than Lisette had inflicted, but he went all macho and brooding in his typical dominant self instead.

Again, I felt this is deliberate on Nalini's part. There were plenty of opportunity to show that Riaz has become vulnerable against Adria too, like that anchor protection stint, if it was Adria who got attacked by the tk, we would have seen the depth of Riaz's emotions for her...we don't have to be convinced of Adria's love and generosity. At least, I don't. It was Riaz's I find lacking.

The reunion scene fell flat, because...at this point I was convinced that Riaz chose Adria not because he loved her, but because she never made him feel vulnerable.
No fear that she had the power to tear him into pieces, no power to wound him, as Lisette do. No fear that Adria can tear down his defenses.
What a bummer. pale

I agree that Adria's unique status might have confused his wolf. Which is why he ought to communicate better with her, to know whether he's choking her wolf by being too protective and that won't happen if he will continue using rank to shut her down. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Rageane on Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:50 am

Yurice wrote:Which brings back the point why didn't he discuss it with her when they had the opportunity, she had said she hasn't read the brief or something and was scanning it on her datapad on their ride there. He's a lieutenant, it goes without saying that he had planned ahead how they'll handle the anchor duty, he will not jeopardize her safety, his or their charge's by not doing so. So why not discuss what he wanted done?

This is from page 331, a few chapters before that anchor protection thing.
It took conscious effort to think past his protective instincts, to understand that when a man chose a strong woman for his own, he made a commitment to nurture and respect that strength. Adria would never allow him to coddle her—but as Sienna didn’t fight Hawke’s need to ensure her safety, Adria allowed Riaz to hold her, trusted him to take care of her in a hundred small ways that soothed his wolf.
Chp 66 was a prime time to make good of that commitment, to show he trusts or at least respects her strength by discussing the matter beforehand, but he pulled rank instead. Evil or Very Mad
Adria trusted him to take care of her, the least he can do is give her a voice, a say in the matters that concern her. By effectively silencing her, even if it's to protect her as he sees fit, it shows an unwillingness to 'negotiate',to meet her halfway, in other words, the root of communication problems. (

What you need to remember is the Rank structure that is involved. I was in the military for 9 years, and let me tell you if you were given an order from an officer, you followed it! You may not agree with it, but you did it. The pack rank isn't much different, during the protection detail in this scene, it isn't Adria and Riaz the lovers, it is Lieutenant and Soldier performing a mission. Where she works and for what reasons has absolutely NO bearing on his personal feelings in the relationship, or how he sees her dominance or not...it was an officer giving an order to a subordinate period.

Now, is the fact that they are in a relationship harmful to that rank structure...oh HELL YEA!! Hawke should have pulled her out from under Riaz and placed her with another Lt immediately following the news of their relationship, that is why enlisted and officers are not allowed to be in personal relationships of the same chain of command in the military today...so you don't have the lines blurred, and you can't show preferential treatment.

As for discussing his plan beforehand...the officer NEVER discusses the battle plan with a subordinate. They develop the plan and then divey out the jobs to the personnel who are with them as orders to be followed...the subordinates follow those orders with the respect and trust that the officer has taken into account all the strengths and weaknesses of the team and has assigned roles to them for the best possible success for mission completion.
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Lulu2011 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:19 pm

Rageane wrote:
Yurice wrote:Which brings back the point why didn't he discuss it with her when they had the opportunity, she had said she hasn't read the brief or something and was scanning it on her datapad on their ride there. He's a lieutenant, it goes without saying that he had planned ahead how they'll handle the anchor duty, he will not jeopardize her safety, his or their charge's by not doing so. So why not discuss what he wanted done?

This is from page 331, a few chapters before that anchor protection thing.
It took conscious effort to think past his protective instincts, to understand that when a man chose a strong woman for his own, he made a commitment to nurture and respect that strength. Adria would never allow him to coddle her—but as Sienna didn’t fight Hawke’s need to ensure her safety, Adria allowed Riaz to hold her, trusted him to take care of her in a hundred small ways that soothed his wolf.
Chp 66 was a prime time to make good of that commitment, to show he trusts or at least respects her strength by discussing the matter beforehand, but he pulled rank instead. Evil or Very Mad
Adria trusted him to take care of her, the least he can do is give her a voice, a say in the matters that concern her. By effectively silencing her, even if it's to protect her as he sees fit, it shows an unwillingness to 'negotiate',to meet her halfway, in other words, the root of communication problems. (

What you need to remember is the Rank structure that is involved. I was in the military for 9 years, and let me tell you if you were given an order from an officer, you followed it! You may not agree with it, but you did it. The pack rank isn't much different, during the protection detail in this scene, it isn't Adria and Riaz the lovers, it is Lieutenant and Soldier performing a mission. Where she works and for what reasons has absolutely NO bearing on his personal feelings in the relationship, or how he sees her dominance or not...it was an officer giving an order to a subordinate period.

Now, is the fact that they are in a relationship harmful to that rank structure...oh HELL YEA!! Hawke should have pulled her out from under Riaz and placed her with another Lt immediately following the news of their relationship, that is why enlisted and officers are not allowed to be in personal relationships of the same chain of command in the military today...so you don't have the lines blurred, and you can't show preferential treatment.

As for discussing his plan beforehand...the officer NEVER discusses the battle plan with a subordinate. They develop the plan and then divey out the jobs to the personnel who are with them as orders to be followed...the subordinates follow those orders with the respect and trust that the officer has taken into account all the strengths and weaknesses of the team and has assigned roles to them for the best possible success for mission completion.

This was what I was trying to convery in my earlier comments. Riaz isn't going to discuss his order with Adria, even if it was done to protect her. They are living within a pack with a clear military hierarchy. It was Hawke who should have pulled Adria so that Riaz' decisions wouldn't be impacted by her presence. (Actually, it would have been an interesting choice on Nalini's part as she would have then had to have found different ways for them to interact.)


Last edited by Lulu2011 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by venus1 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:57 pm

I was very disappointed in this book. I loved Kiss of Snow. I don't seem to like the one's were both love interests are wolves.

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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:53 pm

Rageane wrote:
What you need to remember is the Rank structure that is involved. I was in the military for 9 years, and let me tell you if you were given an order from an officer, you followed it! You may not agree with it, but you did it. The pack rank isn't much different, during the protection detail in this scene, it isn't Adria and Riaz the lovers, it is Lieutenant and Soldier performing a mission. Where she works and for what reasons has absolutely NO bearing on his personal feelings in the relationship, or how he sees her dominance or not...it was an officer giving an order to a subordinate period.

Now, is the fact that they are in a relationship harmful to that rank structure...oh HELL YEA!! Hawke should have pulled her out from under Riaz and placed her with another Lt immediately following the news of their relationship, that is why enlisted and officers are not allowed to be in personal relationships of the same chain of command in the military today...so you don't have the lines blurred, and you can't show preferential treatment.

As for discussing his plan beforehand...the officer NEVER discusses the battle plan with a subordinate. They develop the plan and then divey out the jobs to the personnel who are with them as orders to be followed...the subordinates follow those orders with the respect and trust that the officer has taken into account all the strengths and weaknesses of the team and has assigned roles to them for the best possible success for mission completion.

I understand what you're saying. And I know why Adria is in no position to question his orders. But what you've said only made Riaz's case worse in my eyes. Sam was supposed to be Adria's partner on watch. Hawke had probably made it so that she doesn't come under Riaz anymore, but he obviously switched places. Was he allowed to? Sure, he's a lieutenant, but by doing so, all the harm you've mentioned came into effect. Easily avoidable if Riaz has reined in his protective urges or personal interests that which is chasing Adria, out of their work/duties.
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by degdelta on Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:55 pm

venus1 wrote:I was very disappointed in this book. I loved Kiss of Snow. I don't seem to like the one's were both love interests are wolves.

the next book(s) look to be psy/psy or possibly psy/human.

i will say that, for me, the love story is almost secondary next to the overall ongoing global conflict.

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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:18 pm

Rageane reinforced what I wanted to say, the original point before I deviated into the one way communication thing that is. Lol.
Rageane expressed what I couldn't, how the rank can harm their relationship and vice versa.

Well, alright I can see why Riaz won't discuss before hand the strategy, given that in that situation, they're not lovers but soldiers. :3

Still, that wasn't the point I've seen trying to say, I didn't want Adria to question orders, or to commit acts of insubordination. My point was the situation Riaz created between them.

In the soldier to soldier context, I can now see why it's alright for him to pull rank while in duty.

However, now after much clarification from Rageane's post...I see Riaz in a more negative light than before.

To recap:
Rageane wrote: Now, is the fact that they are in a relationship harmful to that rank structure...oh HELL YEA!! Hawke should have pulled her out from under Riaz and placed her with another Lt immediately following the news of their relationship, that is why enlisted and officers are not allowed to be in personal relationships of the same chain of command in the military today...so you don't have the lines blurred, and you can't show preferential treatment.

Sam is Adria's supposed partner that night, but Riaz made it so that he's the one partnered with her instead.
Far from just pulling rank by ordering her outside house watch, which I can now understand is acceptable, but still doesn't make me happy... Riaz knows the ramifications of their personal relationship to their ranks, but instead of making sure they were never in such situation, Riaz made it happen.

I really ought to stop picking him apart because the more I do, the worse his character becomes for me. Evil or Very Mad


Last edited by Yurice on Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : restructured the whole post.)
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:11 am

let me rant this last bit, so i can lay the rank thing to its final rest. Laughing
While I can't say I know the specifics of rank/hierarchy in the military/pack. I was able to grasp some points from the books.

I understood why Hawke had to punish Sienna in the beginning of KoS, she's not a juvenile anymore but a ranked soldier, and Hawke is on top of their military structure, insubordination simply isn't done.

I know too, why Sienna insisted that Hawke can never be her alpha, that their ranks in the pack cannot mingle with their personal relationship without repurcussions.

And as Rageane explained it more clearly, not going to elaborate, let me just say that work and pleasure should never mix! Lol.

So here comes Riaz and the situation he instigated.
I may have not been able to put to words why the anchor protection duty felt wrong, why it felt that Riaz had undue advantage over Adria, and had put my finger on the pulling rank thing, and went off tangent from there.
However, Rageane's post brought everything into perspective.
In a situation where they're both soldiers, Adria had to obey Riaz, I understood this, which is why I kept on saying Riaz made it into a situation where she can't question him.

I thought he should have discussed the protection details with her before hand, yes, he's not obliged to, he's the lieutenant, she's his subordinate. I can accept this, but does it make him look good? No. Was it romantic? Lol no. At least for me it isn't.

And obviously, Hawke or Riley made it so that Adria isn't placed under Riaz anymore by assigning her with Sam. But Riaz...used his position to switch places with Sam, instead of making sure their ranks does not collide with their personal relationship. He did this, planned and deliberate while knowing what the ramifications are.

Meh... Evil or Very Mad

OK, I think I'm fine now. Razz

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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Rageane on Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:35 am

Yurice, if in real life this had happened in a military op...Riaz would have faced trial and possible jail time....so you are correct it was WRONG.
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by ferdy on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:28 am

Yurice, I completely agree with all your posts. It's like your reading my thoughts only your putting down in a well thought outand coherent way:)
I'm atill annoyedand disappointed by R/A's 'HEA', I can't seem to get over it. I'm glad there was so much other plotlines going on in ToN because otherwise I wouldn't have enjoyed it.
I wish I was like Lulu and was more optimistic about the HEA but once I've made my mind up about something especially when i think that something is bad, I can't seem to change my POV no matter how much reason is involved.

I think I prefer changeling couples as opposed to psy/changeling (apart from A/R) ..I loved Riley/Mercy and Indigo/Andrew the most..I liked Hawke and Sienna in spite of them being a psy/changeling couple because of the huge buid up the had. I think most ofthe psy/changeling couples bar H/S are just a slightly different variation of the other. I would like to read a psy/psy couple..I think it would be interesting - I wonder if they'd have a kind of 'mating bond' by means of sharing a constantly used psychic connection/bond??

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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Maisey on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:58 am

So glad I stumbled across this forum. I've wanted to join Nalini Singh forum for ages but never come across one. Mostly I visited her website.

Anyhow, to get back to this topic. I too have problem with this book. Lete start of by saying I kinda like Raiz in POP but gone off him big time. When I read TON I just wanted to throw my kindle at Riaz for being so mean to Adria. Like many posters here I don't think Riaz deserved Adria. Adria had been short change in this book.
I hated the fact that is make me question the value and specialness of the mating bond.
The only reason I wanted a mating bond for Riaz and Adria is more for Adria's sake then anything. She more than deserved it after what she had gone through with Martin than Riaz.
I'm really hopping eventually she will find her mate and we will see she getting her own back. Evil, I know! *evil laughed*
Although ultimately Adria and Riaz will always be together. I can't see it any other way.
Okay, this is my first post so be gently people :-)
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:29 am

I didn't think what Riaz did was that bad. @_@; the trial and jail time thing, I mean.
I was moaning more about how detrimental to the romance aspect of their relationship that situation Riaz created was, I really didn't comprehend the full weight of his actions if he did it in real life. @_@;

I'm trying to find a more positive view on the whole A/R, it's beginning to make me unhappy too. Crying or Very sad

I think I'll go with the 'second chances', one reviewer had about ToN.
A/R's relationship isn't as special as the mated couples, but at least we have two people who were able to find happiness with each other, when both had pasts that only brought them pain.
Riaz is, as Adria puts it, a 'pushy, overbearing SOB'. But she doesn't seem to mind...perhaps there is something about him taking charge all the time that soothes the maternal side of her wolf.

Well I still want to chew him up, but I'm now willing to accept Adria's decision. She had admitted that she can't be happy without him, and her wolf has chosen this arrogant SOB. Wolves choose only once, as they say...not sure now if this covers only mating, but when they take permanent partners too.
I may never see whatever it is that she saw in him, but yeah, since Riaz makes her happy, I'll leave it at that.

Of the three changeling/changeling couples we've met, I enjoyed Riley/Mercy the most. But in terms of their animals interacting with each other, my favorite is Adria/Riaz's...the one where they both shifted on top of the bed and she lay her head on her front paws and he slowly crowded her against the headboard. It was an adorable mental picture to me.

We do have a psy/psy couple, Dev and Katya. The name of their book eludes me at the moment tho...Blaze of Memory, if I got it right. :3


And welcome Maisey! I hope you enjoy your stay! Very Happy
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by ferdy on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:05 pm

Yurice wrote: We do have a psy/psy couple, Dev and Katya. The name of their book eludes me at the moment tho...Blaze of Memory, if I got it right. :3

See I don't really think of Dev and Katya as psy/psy, it's more human/psy to me because Dev was never Silent or in the psy web.. I really want to see how it would work between 2 psy that have been bought up as silent..maybe Nikita and Anthony or Kaleb and a psy girl.. it would make things very interesting because neither of them would know how to be in a romantic relationship.

And hi Maisey!! I'm not fond of Riaz either - I want Adria to find her mate, I know it's been said that once a changeling is in a commited relationship they can't feel the tug of a mating bond but if Lisette who was human could feel it when she was married and in love with another man then I have hope that Adria will meet her mate..yea, I know it'll never happen but I still can't help hoping. I think it'd actually make for an interesting arc for Adria to gradually fall out of love with Riaz and become aware of a mating tug with another wolf who's some across Adria and felt the tug but not done anything because she's with someone else - I would love to read something like - it'd certainly mix things up:P

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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Maisey on Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:38 pm

Thanks Yurice and Ferdy.

If that does happens it will certainly spice things up a bit Ferdy.
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by kitarad on Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:28 am

So much has been said about the mating bond but I cannot help but speculate another aspect of this tie. You all say that Riaz and Adria were cheated out of the mating bond but imagine this what if you find your mate and he is an evil person. What if your mate is someone you truly cannot bring yourself to mate with but instead find another you love. How would you solve that would you insist the mating bond take precedence over the love or are we all to assume Nalini's world will not have such a pair ? Like those enemies that did not mate what if one of them was truly a bad person ? Would that satisfy you if they mated just because it is the mate bond ? How about that for another story where two people destined to mate cannot truly be mated because one of them is very very cruel and is abusive . I would never condone a mate bond in that circumstance no matter how romantic it might be that is why Kresley Cole lost me and her book about Regan I never even bothered to read it when I found out from posts he had her tortured. Bond my ass I am never going to to bond with anyone who tortures and abuses me and continues to abuse others ,that is an aspect of this genre I'm absolutely adamant about. No couple in any paranormal romance is going to do that to each other and be convincing. Even Curran was on thin ice with me except Kate hit him upside his head and he never tried to choke her again and there was clear guilt when she brought it up with him insisting that was just that one time to which she quipped was more than enough thank you very much.. Even when Bones first met Cat he walloped the shit out of her and that never sat well with me but I understood it was at her instigation and I came to terms with it. There was another book too I read about on one discussion board where the h left the H to be tortured for weeks and weeks also I would not be tempted to read. It was a Sherrilyn Kenyon book Born to something or another and she has a penchant for torture of men . I think she does not like men very much....poor,poor Acheron. This type of cruelty has never convinced me of love.

For me it would never work ,Lisette is not Riaz's equal. He would totally dominate her and probably get bored out of his mind in her company. Even the little description of her made me want to yawn. Granted he is overbearing with Adria but I think he is well aware of her as an equal even though he does override her when he wants to but only because she allows it. Notice the word 'allow' because she can totally go ape shit on his ass over trying to protect her and he would be in trouble. I do not think at any time he was unaware of her as an equal but he wanted to protect her and he went about it wrong but I cannot see him discussing things like that being the type of male he is. What it says about him is that he has been alone too long that lone wolf thing but that of course translates to him not respecting her but it is his intrinsic nature something like Hawke has to give in at times. You notice how much Hawke has to swallow his bile when he does not want Sienna to do something but realises he has to let her. Riaz will probably never reach that point. Hawke being Alpha has had to deal with that reality quite often but Riaz probably not and I do not see him ever trying not to do what he wants in the end with Adria. Does that make Adria a doormat I do not think so or does it make her weak when she gives in. Sometimes when you are in a relationship it takes strength to accept the other person's character but I think Adria will probably ask to work with someone else in the future so she can avoid these types of confrontations. It is my honest belief that in spite of Riaz loving Adria he will not listen to her point of view where her safety is in question and to tell you the truth that is kinda sweet to me.

As for his reaction to Adria leaving him it was anger because she would not believe him. See what he experienced with Lisette has to do with the mating bond which when he realised was unattainable devastated him because he truly could not do anything about it without making Lisette unhappy. Here he can and intends to do something about it. Why would he be devastated as he believes he can convince Adria in the end. He just had to show her how determined he was and to further that goal he reunites Lisette with her husband Emil was it can't quite recall his name. I do not think at any point after he fell for Adria was he ever going to try for Lisette Riaz truly convinced me of that. He was not picking a safer bet either because what if Adria's real mate came along and she left him for her mate. Would that not hurt Riaz ,would he not be safer being a lone wolf with occasional sex buddies ? Come on, him picking Adria and wanting her was very romantic because he consciously gave up his mate and the bond that previously in giving up devastated him. How is that not convincing for you ? How is the fact that he had an opportunity to get Lisette his true mate and him not even considering for a moment to try for it not an indication of how much he loved Adria . We are talking mating bond over love and love won. I would say that is absolutely violin orchestra worthy.
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Lulu2011 on Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:31 am

kitarad, I think you've got a good point. What if your mate (the one who was born for you, the one whose soul is your twin) becomes a twisted, evil person due to the life they led prior to meeting you? Or just becomes a difficult, not very nice person due to the life they led prior? You'd want a choice, an out, and it wouldn't be right or fair to not be able to find happiness and love with someone who is a match for you.

Now, Lisette wasn't twisted or evil, just kind of silly in a way and seemed kind of weak. Nalini made her that way, as well as made her human, so that Adria does seem a much better fit for Riaz. Particularly the two of them being wolves and understanding what that means.

My disappointment stems only from wanting Adria to have the bond because she deserves it. I liked her character a lot. She isn't going to find her mate now since love where the wolf accepts the lover takes the place of the mating bond forming with anyone else so she won't have the opportunity down the road. But I do believe that she loves Riaz and Riaz loves her and is utterly devoted to her and, because this is Nalini, they will stay that way and she might even go as far as showing us a little more of them down the road to reinforce that. But, I still wanted it for Adria.

Also, I agree with you about Regin and Declan's book. I really disliked that book for that reason and Declan is my least favorite IAD H.
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:21 am

The phrase once bitten twice shy is how I'd describe Riaz. Now, if Adria made him feel vulnerable, or 'threatens' his emotional armor, but he still chose her, then I'd be more convinced. Nowhere in the story did I feel that she had the power to wound him, yes, he'd say he's hurt and all, but they were just that, words. I didn't see it. Not the way Lisette had impacted him. No emotional kick to the chest, no tilting of his world out of focus. Well, OK Adria helped him heal, because she's safe. She didn't even leave him when they met Lisette, didn't judge him or demanded more than he was willing to give. At the state he's in, I'm not surprised he 'walked' away from Lisette, when she makes him vulnerable. That's what they do in the name of self preservation, so no, I'd be more surprised if he did go after her.

Now I wished there was a scene where Riaz was able to say to himself that losing Adria hurt him even more worse than Lisette did. I think part of the reason I'm so unconvinced is because after all those soliloquy about being given a second chance with Adria, after deciding Lisette is his past Adria his future, he was wounded anew on seeing Lisette again. Granted, he said it was shock, but it was a shock that threw his world out of focus...unless that part about him waking up with the world back in focus was just poetry. XD no, I'm not being a sadist here, wanting him wounded just for the sake of it, I just wanted to see Adria inciting the same emotional reaction or more from him. =(

I agree that one shouldn't mate just for the sake of mating.
But the way I see mating in Nalini's changeling is that they're made to fit. (Borrowing from CBI, when Judd was contemplating about the lack of the bond between him and Brenna.) So...it's more like ebul mates with ebul, and goody mates with goody. In other words, a perfect match. So...if one mate is evil, then his/her mate is evil too. Of course, that's horrible to think about, imagine what Dieter and his mate would have done together?

Lol, that was just a gag theory. XD

But anyway, I don't think a mating bond will solve the 'issues' I see right now for A/R. Unless I could somehow see it as a big 'sacrifice' on Riaz's part to choose Adria over Lisette, then I will always see their relationship as unbalanced. I see it more as a rebound relationship if not a 'once biten twice shy' one.

I'm more concerned for Adria. Iwant her to be a mate, not second best, not consolation prize. The way I see Riaz right now, Lisette will fit him better, in that she'd be happy and content to let him coddle her, given with how possessive and protective a lone wolf is supposed to be. it's true that Adria is more knowledgeable being a wolf and senior soldier as far as SD is concerned, but saying she's a better fit for Riaz because of this is like saying Sascha or Faith or Ashaya doesn't fit the dominant men who are their mates.

Regin...was it Declan who tortured her? Because from what I can recall, he was down because of drugs, and another woman experimented on her. Well it's been a while since I read IAD. Last time was Lothaire when it came out.
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by ferdy on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:11 am

Yurice, I agree that Liseete would fit him better due to his protective nature. Yes, Lisette came across as a little illy, but Ithink that's exactly what he needs - a bit of fun and lightness in his life. Adria might understand his world better but that doesn't necessarily mean she's a better fit him. Like Yurice said that would mean that Mercy would have been better fit for Lucas/Vaughn/Dorian than Sasha/Faith/Ashaya because she understood their world and what being dominant wolf is all about.
It's sad to think that if Lisette had been single that Riaz would have fought to be with her and made a connection to her that's more profound and deeper than what he has with Adria. The fact that Riaz even admits this after he's fallen for Adria is pretty depressing - no other hero or heroine from previous books would he even think that they'd could have something more special with someone else.
Adria and Riaz's relationship was unsatisfying for me but I did find the whole notion of Riaz moving on from his mate interesting. I just wish it had been explored more - Maybe if he had to choose to save one who would he instinctly choose? If Lisette had said she wanted him and moved to be closer to him - would his love for Adria have been strong enough to stop him from persuing Lisette? If he was in constant contact with Lisette would the mating tug eventually disappear? Would he still feel something for Lisette if he saw her and the mating tug had disappeared? If Adria decided to not get back together with Riaz - how long would he have fought for her? would he still jave fought for her if her mate turned up?



I was just wondering about when Riaz felt that he was betraying Lisette by wanting Adria and sleeping with her. Does that mean that Hawke never slept with anyone for 3 years since Sienna showed up. I know he didn't think he could mate again but wasn't Hawke confused about his reaction towards Sienna because his wolf knew on some level that Sienna was his. From the first book it was noted that there was something between them, I don't think Hawke the man was drawn to a 16yr old but that it was his wolf side that was drawn to Sienna. Didn't Indi comment on Hawke's sex life and say he's not had sex for months at the very least? Do we know exactly how long it'd been since Hawke had sex? I've always interpreted that Hawke's wolf felt something for her since they first met, so based on what Riaz said shouldn't he have felt like he couldn't sleep with amyone else? And if he had slept with someone else in those 3 yrs wouldn't he have betrayed Sienna in a way??

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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Lulu2011 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:57 pm

ferdy wrote:Yurice, I agree that Liseete would fit him better due to his protective nature. Yes, Lisette came across as a little illy, but Ithink that's exactly what he needs - a bit of fun and lightness in his life. Adria might understand his world better but that doesn't necessarily mean she's a better fit him. Like Yurice said that would mean that Mercy would have been better fit for Lucas/Vaughn/Dorian than Sasha/Faith/Ashaya because she understood their world and what being dominant wolf is all about.
It's sad to think that if Lisette had been single that Riaz would have fought to be with her and made a connection to her that's more profound and deeper than what he has with Adria. The fact that Riaz even admits this after he's fallen for Adria is pretty depressing - no other hero or heroine from previous books would he even think that they'd could have something more special with someone else.
Adria and Riaz's relationship was unsatisfying for me but I did find the whole notion of Riaz moving on from his mate interesting. I just wish it had been explored more - Maybe if he had to choose to save one who would he instinctly choose? If Lisette had said she wanted him and moved to be closer to him - would his love for Adria have been strong enough to stop him from persuing Lisette? If he was in constant contact with Lisette would the mating tug eventually disappear? Would he still feel something for Lisette if he saw her and the mating tug had disappeared? If Adria decided to not get back together with Riaz - how long would he have fought for her? would he still jave fought for her if her mate turned up?

I also would have liked this explored more deeply as well as I thought it too soon, in the context of how special and important mating is supposed to be. However, we could speculate on "what ifs" for all the couples forever and I'm going to choose not to do so regarding Lisette and Riaz. I personally do buy into the love between Riaz and Adria and am not going to worry about Lisette coming back since
this is a book by Nalini after all, and there is no way she is ever going to bring Lisette back and split up Riaz and Adria. I mean, I could speculate that maybe Rissa didn't die in that avalanche and maybe she'll show up one day and what would that do to Hawke? Would he feel a pull towards Rissa? I could drive myself crazy with that kind of thing lol. Overall, I think Nalini was trying to give readers a resounding HEA for Riaz/Adria and probably thought she succeeded, especially after having Riaz send Lisette back to Emil, but clearly she failed for many readers.

ferdy wrote:I was just wondering about when Riaz felt that he was betraying Lisette by wanting Adria and sleeping with her. Does that mean that Hawke never slept with anyone for 3 years since Sienna showed up. I know he didn't think he could mate again but wasn't Hawke confused about his reaction towards Sienna because his wolf knew on some level that Sienna was his. From the first book it was noted that there was something between them, I don't think Hawke the man was drawn to a 16yr old but that it was his wolf side that was drawn to Sienna. Didn't Indi comment on Hawke's sex life and say he's not had sex for months at the very least? Do we know exactly how long it'd been since Hawke had sex? I've always interpreted that Hawke's wolf felt something for her since they first met, so based on what Riaz said shouldn't he have felt like he couldn't sleep with amyone else? And if he had slept with someone else in those 3 yrs wouldn't he have betrayed Sienna in a way??

Back in Branded by Fire Riley says to Hawke that "no wonder your balls are blue" and that Sienna isn't ready and he (and a few other men) would kill him if he touched her. Later in the book, they have their knock-down drag-out fight since they both need to deal with their frustrations. We don't see anything of Hawke/Sienna in the next book, BoJ, but then in PoP, Indigo is telling Hawke how she can sense his sexual need and frustration and that it'll be bleeding out to the other wolves soon. So, my impression is that Hawke hasn't been with anyone since before Branded by Fire since he was pretty darn frustrated then. I think Sienna was just 18 in Branded by Fire so it would have been right around 2 years of celibacy for Hawke by the time KoS happens.

However, I do think he had been with other women when Sienna was aged 16 - until 18 as even Sienna says in KoS that she closed her eyes/ears to the rumors of who he had been seen with. I don't think of it as betrayal since he didn't realize/recognize that Sienna was his mate and the wolf didn't start riding him until she turned 18 and decided she was an adult.
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:24 pm

Unlike the other couples who are 'secured' with a mating bond, the uncertainty hangs over Riaz and Adria, simply because of the fact that Lisette is alive. What if Emil died from his sickness? Mates come first. Does this mean in a life or death situation, Riaz would have picked Lisette instinctively? Is that why Nalini didn't give us such a scene?

Yes, Nalini isn't going to split up A/R...but as readers, we're left to interpret their story as we see it. I'm not so sure about Nalini selling the HEA, to me, she has deliberately left it ambiguous.



Now for Hawke's blueballs. Lol
I'm of the opinion that if Hawke had tried to sleep with someone earlier before Rosalie, his wolf would have rejected her, and Hawke would have known much earlier that only Sienna can fulfill his needs. As he remained 'ignorant' of that fact until that moment with Rosalie, I'd say there hasn't been anyone since meeting Sienna.

Sienna did say she closed her ears and eyes about the rumors. But she doesn't really know anything, like that reporter she'd seen Hawke with, that led to her dominance match with Maria, she had thought they were dating, seen in a restaurant and all when that wasn't what actually happened.
and I don't think Sienna even knew Hawke was sexually frustrated. That deleted scene with Indigo, was the only time it was mentioned to Sienna that Hawke wasn't having any. She would have simply assumed that he has lover(s) based on changelings need for touch and rumors.

The tricky part is when did the wolf decide that she's an adult? To Nate's cat, Tammy was mature at fifteen...of course the human part won't touch her, and even at 19, Hawke thinks Sienna is too young for him. So...
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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by degdelta on Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:10 pm

personally i think this whole issue is now moot. The pairing of Riaz and Adria is a done deal, and i want to believe (and will believe) that they have their HEA for as long as they shall live (they are in a war, after all.)

The truth is there are no guarantees in life or love unless you work at it.

Both characters are committed and no matter what possible temptations might come along they will deal.

so there! <LOL>

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Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Lulu2011 on Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:36 pm

Yurice wrote:Unlike the other couples who are 'secured' with a mating bond, the uncertainty hangs over Riaz and Adria, simply because of the fact that Lisette is alive. What if Emil died from his sickness? Mates come first. Does this mean in a life or death situation, Riaz would have picked Lisette instinctively? Is that why Nalini didn't give us such a scene?

Yes, Nalini isn't going to split up A/R...but as readers, we're left to interpret their story as we see it. I'm not so sure about Nalini selling the HEA, to me, she has deliberately left it ambiguous....

I think with 10 previous books and 3 novellas all ending in convincing HEA's that Nalini's intention with #11 is likely that it be considered a convincing HEA as well. She may have failed in that endeavor for you and some other readers but I'm going to go with it, since it is a romance novel and I can see how Riaz and Adria can easily stay happy and commited to one another. Wondering what would happen if Emil dies, well, we could speculate endlessly about "what ifs" for all the couples. As I asked above, what if Rissa isn't really dead? Then we'd have a mess. But she is dead and Nalini isn't going to bring her back to create trouble for Sienna and Hawke any more than she'll kill off Emil to cause trouble for Adria and Riaz.

Yurice wrote:Now for Hawke's blueballs. Lol
I'm of the opinion that if Hawke had tried to sleep with someone earlier before Rosalie, his wolf would have rejected her, and Hawke would have known much earlier that only Sienna can fulfill his needs. As he remained 'ignorant' of that fact until that moment with Rosalie, I'd say there hasn't been anyone since meeting Sienna.

Sienna did say she closed her ears and eyes about the rumors. But she doesn't really know anything, like that reporter she'd seen Hawke with, that led to her dominance match with Maria, she had thought they were dating, seen in a restaurant and all when that wasn't what actually happened. and I don't think Sienna even knew Hawke was sexually frustrated. That deleted scene with Indigo, was the only time it was mentioned to Sienna that Hawke wasn't having any. She would have simply assumed that he has lover(s) based on changelings need for touch and rumors.

The tricky part is when did the wolf decide that she's an adult? To Nate's cat, Tammy was mature at fifteen...of course the human part won't touch her, and even at 19, Hawke thinks Sienna is too young for him. So...

I think here is a case where Nalini is allowing us readers to make up our own minds and leaving it vague on purpose. I think it is highly unlikely Hawke was celebate from when Sienna was age 16 - 19. I think he was since she turned 18 for sure and probably for some time before. But Nalini doesn't come right out and state it so she is letting us interpret it the way we want to.
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