The Mating Bond problem

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Patricia on Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:44 am

I think there is a definite difference between Hawke and Riaz. Riaz just found his mate and couldn't have her. It was a fresh wound. Additionally, he felt as if the thing he had with Adria was maybe not just a fling, not just something he did because his wolf needed contact.

All the changelings know and accept that sex is neccessary for them and their wolves/panthers/younameit. It's just how it is, and they deal with it. They don't need to love their partners, and their partners don't necessarily expect them to. Buddy-calls, blahblah.

But he and Adria didn't get along. They weren't friends just helping each other out. He wanted *her*. That is what felt like betrayel, I think. If he had just wanted sex he could have slept with a friend or a stranger who attracted him a little. But the reason why he slept with her wasn't just because he was horny. The main reason wasn't his need for touch. That's gotta sting.

With Hawke. Well. Hawke knew Sienna for years. He also had lots of years to sort of get over his mate - Plus, he was very young then and had other things to deal with, so the issue of betraying her after her death probably didn't rise up that fast. In any case, he was used to denying himself things he wanted, but he was also aware that there were things he needed to properly function as Alpha. So he was able to sleep with women, and that probably mostly because it never really lasted.

When Sienna arrived she was still a girl, and she behaved like a brat, so what did he care if it didn't affect the den? Sure he did care about her, but not in a romantic way. Until he did. But that had to have taken some time. Not just that he felt this way, but also that he became aware of those emotions. In any case, by then everything was different, and he had probably been celibate already, and he was busy, and he probably didn't even make a conscious choise to keep little Hawke in his pants.

So.. in short. Very different imo.

As for the mating bond and your mate and what if he's Ted Bundy.

Well.. I think both Adria and whatsherface make good mates for Riaz. Whatsherface would have probably made his life easier, but Adria challenges him. Personally.. I'd want both, but I think that Adria is able to let some things slide and accept defeat when she realizes that Riaz wants some friggin peace. I *do* wonder if Riaz will ever provide the same for her and how he would compare to her mate.. BUT here's the thing: I still think that there are dozens of possible mates for us, and we just have to get to the point where our wolves or whatever type of Changeling we are, recognize eachother.

I also think that Riley and Mercy are best for eachother. I don't think a guy like Lucas or Dorian would have been best for her.

Same goes for the guys. Firstly, they think of Mercy as their friend, maybe even sister. Especially Dorian and Mercy. (And it feeeeels like they are just too close to loooove eachotheeeer. *sing*) Lucas, Dorian and Vaugn all lost someone, and I think they don't have it in them to accept their girlfriends or mates or whatever to really be on the frontline of fighting.

Riley had his issues with that, but after the Brenna-incident he also saw that those close to him *CAN* fight, and that he can't always protect them as he wants to, but he can provide the things they need to protect themselves. In any case, Lucas, Dorian and Vaughn needed some stay-at-home wives. (At the same time they didn't want some submissive little things, I guess, so Sascha, Shaya and Faith got some superpowers. Whatever.)

_________________
Insert meaningful, yet incredibly funny statement here.  
avatar
Patricia
Moderator

Posts : 1229
Join date : 2011-03-07
Location : Germany

http://bookexhibitionism.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Guest on Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:15 pm

You can't call her Shaya. Dorian will have a fit. Cool

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Patricia on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:13 pm

Shaya Shaya Shaya.

I think he didn't have as huge an issue with that as Clay with Dorian calling Tally Tally.

_________________
Insert meaningful, yet incredibly funny statement here.  
avatar
Patricia
Moderator

Posts : 1229
Join date : 2011-03-07
Location : Germany

http://bookexhibitionism.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:35 pm

There's what I like to call 'feasible' speculation and those speculation that won't go too far as...well, it just won't make sense.

Rissa's death is one of the speculations that won't go too far with me. For one thing, who would smuggle her out of the den? Why did she stay away all these years? How did Hawke get misled that it wasn't her who was buried in that grave? But somebody else's? He'd been at that grave for a month, didn't speak a word. Even if he had been too young, won't his nose tell him the truth?
Perhaps, if there had been no body buried in a grave that Hawke visits, then he himself would probably hope to his dying breath that Rissa is still alive somewhere, that perhaps aliens had come to abduct her and she'd return to him one day. Lol!

Emil and Adria's mate is what I call 'feasible' speculations. Because while Lisette lives, she will always be a 'threat'. Simply because she's Riaz's mate. Just because Riaz didn't pursue her, doesn't mean her being his mate is erased just like that. The knowledge will always be with him, the mating urge may quiet down, but the recognition of her as his mate will probably remain. And...
Just how could I be convinced that his love is true when in the span of one month, he had gone from licking his wounds to pledging undying love for Adria?

There was an 'excuse' for the other couples falling so in love that hard and that fast, because they're mates.

I'm not saying that Riaz will no longer feel lust because he found his mate, the promise was fidelity, as in, not acting on lust. But it doesn't mean his natural urges are dead. And that's pretty much what I see here.
Adria doesn't make demands, heck, she always lets Riaz get away with everything. Sure, there were protests, and the occasional drawing of blood, but she always give in to him in the end. As if all those clawing and ripping of shirt and skin were just for show.
And he calls her Empress. Meh! When he's the dictator?

Nalini lets her reader do the interpretations of her characters. In this way, she can't fail any of us when it comes to HEA of her stories. For me ToN is a welcome change. I like how it's darker in terms of relationships and the world at this point with psy civil war looming over them.

Following the mating 'rules', it isn't a choice like marriage as Lucas said, or every changeling in long term relationships would have mated somewhere down the road. It's won't be a mysterious thing anymore, but a given, like planting a seed and just wait for it to grow. Lol.

However Tammy was born for Nate. That was how it was written in their novella. Sienna has always been Hawke's, whether she'd known it or not, whether he'd accepted it or not. Meaning she was born as his mate, not after they've fallen in love. If there were more than one mates, and if these men, given with the huge age gap between the girls, were already mated before the girls came of age, then what was those passages in the books all about?
Sorry girls, you were born for one man, but this man can mate with another, it's your cursed bad luck you didn't find him first before the other mate did, too bad you were born too late. Wahh! Now that's what I'd call depressing lol.
avatar
Yurice

Posts : 216
Join date : 2011-11-03

http://hawke-sienna.tk/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:35 am

I'd like to add that if there was any hope of Rissa still alive out there, there will never be closure for Hawke.
So, to put to rest any speculation that would rise of her being still alive was taken care of in the passage where wolf and boy sat at Rissa's grave, hoping she'd come back until about a month later, when the body would have probably decomposed beyond any hope of revival. We were given a body, Rissa's body that Hawke mourned over.

Yes, we can still speculate the what if's, but we won't have much to back it up with what's given in the book.
If Nalini wrote Rissa died and was lost under the avalanche, then yeah, there's hope she could still have made it...although how a five year old could without someone digging her out, and given with how protective they are of kids, how can anyone steal her from the pack? It just won't compute. XD

But in A/R's case, the threat is real. The only thing we can hold onto is Nalini's 'promise' of HEA. That she won't indeed break up A/R. But supposed the world she created had a life of its own? Follows its own rules and rythms...where would A/R be in the future?
Nate's parents always come to mind. Like A/R they're in love and committed to each other. But in the end, it wasn't enough.

Which is why, I'd hoped the dynamics between A/R had been more balanced. I'd be convinced, mates or not, they'll be happy together. But nuuu.
For a time, I was beginning to believe they'll make it, that Riaz is indeed falling in love with Adria, then that scene of meeting Lisette again came up and Bam! No more rose-colored glasses for me, and skeptic I had remained till the end. Evil or Very Mad

Still, I don't want an A/R part two. I'll always like Adria, but I'll always wish she'd be free to find her true mate. Riaz is Lisette's, even if he and Adria wished differently. Choosing, loving and being commited to someone doesn't make them mates. The bond can't be forced.
avatar
Yurice

Posts : 216
Join date : 2011-11-03

http://hawke-sienna.tk/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by ferdy on Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:13 am

I wish Nalini would have written how long Hawke was celibate for because there's quite a few diffrent opinions and we can't all be right.
I hope that he was celibate and after reading the comments I pretty much agree with Yurice's opinions. Since Riaz said that fidelity goes hand in hand with finding a mate and then Hawke admitted to Sienna that there was part of him (probably the wolf) that always knew she was his that should mean he would be faithful towards her..even if Hawke conciously didn't consider her an adult, a part of him did for her to be even be considered a mate and that part knew they were meant to be so for him to sleep with someone else would have been a betrayl regardless of age. If Nate could stay celibate for 4 years then I don't see any reason why Hawke wouldn't have been able to.
I'd be disappointed to find out if he wasn't celibate since Sienna came into his life because it would break the fidelity rule Riaz was talking about, the only reason Riaz broke it was because he was in love with Adria and I think we can all agree that Hawke wasn't in love with anyone else. It'd just ruin my opinion of the strength and specialness of Hawke and Sienna's connection and bond if Hawke had slept with someone else.
I really really want to know the answer but I have a feeling that we're just meant interpret things ourselves but I hate doing that with questions that are very important because even if I might have interpreted something one way, i'll still have doubts especially when I'm reading other people's opinions.
Hawke's celibacy, the rules of the mating bond and what happened to Rissa's soul are all things that need clear cut answers. I mean if Rissa is in heaven or reincarnated - will she end up with Hawke down the line or has she got a new soulmate? Why did Hawke and Rissa have a potential mating bond if she wasn't his soulmate? How could they have had the mating tug if Sienna's his soulmate? Did Hawke and the adults mistake Rissa as his mate when she might have just been someone he felt protective of and someone who was his best friend? It's all so confusing and after investing time and money i'm disappointed that we're left with an incomplete picture, I'd like some answers or at leats the promise of answers.
There's only so much I want to interpret in a book - leaving big questions unanswered is upsetting and unfair. *Sigh* The more I think about H/S, A/R and the mating bond the more frustrated I get by the lack of answers and clarity. I'm really hoping that there's a big masterplan and a reason for all the unanswered questions that'll be revealed in the next few books.

ferdy

Posts : 61
Join date : 2011-06-01

Back to top Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:04 pm

Alright, there's this passage I've overlooked in Kiss. Page 219 according to my kindle. This was when Hawke and Sienna was talking near the lake, before the South American op.
...the woman who’d had a hold on him since the instant their eyes collided in that dark green glade the day of her defection.
I'm not advocating that he saw her sexually while she was still a minor, but the hold she had on him didn't begin when she was 18, but on the moment they met.
He still won't claim Sienna when she's 18, for whatever excuse he's drilling into himself. Meaning, there was no reason for his celibacy, there never was a spoken promise of commitment from him before and when she became an adult, so why would she turning 18 make a difference? Because he was attracted to her. Yes, he wanted only her. While he can only allow himself to be attracted to her when she's an adult, that didn't mean she was just another packmate to him while she was still a minor. There was that 'recognition' and that 'hold over him' from the moment they met.

However, the wolf who had been willing to wait until she's adult got through with waiting, and started to fight the man. No more excuses.

It's this struggle between man and wolf that led to the agitation of the other wolves. And I don't think either Riley and Indigo would have known about Hawke's blueballs if not for this 'disturbance'. Riley wanted bloodletting if he can't have sex. But Hawke went mad enough to draw blood, not because he wanted sex, but because Sienna had to move out of the den. He was that much in control of his 'urges', but fighting his own wolf was destroying him.

Indigo said Hawke was more balanced that morning after he and Sienna danced in the gym. Indigo had no knowledge yet of the decision Hawke made to claim Sienna, and he hasn't had sex yet. But to all appearances, he could very well have, given with his new found balance. The difference? His wolf wasn't fighting him anymore, was now willing to wait now that he had decided to go after Sienna.

So Riley and Indigo could have only picked up his celibacy when the wolf was fighting Hawke. Despite being shameless about going nude, Hawke is mighty touchy with his privacy, I don't think he'll air out his affairs, no matter how close his friends are.

I'd like to have a clear cut answer too. But, I haven't seen any 'evidence' yet to support that Hawke had lovers even after meeting Sienna.
On the other hand, we have these clues about the promise of fidelity, and that hold Sienna has over Hawke the moment they met. So...I'm more inclined to believe that Hawke had indeed started his celibacy not when she turned 18 but on the day she defected. Very Happy
avatar
Yurice

Posts : 216
Join date : 2011-11-03

http://hawke-sienna.tk/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Yurice on Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:18 pm

Now Rissa.
There are two passages in Tangle that I'm holding onto, to support my opinion.
Page 182 When Hawke was talking with Sienna about birth control.
He might be wolf, might be alpha, but he was also a man who’d just found his mate after believing he’d never have that bond.
Page364 The discussion between Hawke and Riaz.
“You’re the only wolf I know who found his mate twice.”
Both times, it was 'his mate'. Not his 'second mate', not 'one of his mates'. Just mate. One.
Why phrase it that way? Why consign Rissa to eternal darkness as if she was just a ghost in Hawke's past, not the mate he's supposed to have when they grow up?

To me, this suggests that either
a) Rissa and Sienna are reincarnates of the same soul.
b) Rissa was never Hawke's mate in the first place.

Mate has been 'defined' in Tangle as "More than a lover, more than a friend, a mate was meant to be a wolf's other half." pg 48.
And then, we'd get a passage like this from pg 110- aftermath of the mating ceremony.
What she hadn’t understood until afterward was that the passionate need she and Hawke had fought for so long would become a molten river. Connecting them. Making them whole.
In essence, Sienna is Hawke's other half. They were meant to fit. Can't call a half a half, unless it was part of a whole first. xD. But seriously, when we speak of making two halves 'whole' again, there can be only a perfect fit if the original halves are connected. In the series' world, this connection is the mating bond.

If Rissa is indeed Hawke's mate, then Sienna can't be his mate unless they were made of the same 'half' that would complete Hawke. You can't have three halves. lol.
But Sienna was Hawke’s, had always been his, whether she’d known it or not, whether he’d accepted it or not. - page 390 of Kiss. It wasn't because they fell in love, chose one another or decided to pledge commitment. They were able to bond because Sienna was born his mate. As was stated in Beat of Temptation that Tammy was born for Nate.
Mates are not shaped/morphed to fit each other because of whatever tragedy has struck them or relationships they've built, they were born that way.^^
By going with choice a) Hawke and Sienna's mating won't violate the 'meeting mate only once - rule thingy'. Because, since Rissa and Sienna are essentially the same soul, Hawke had indeed met his mate only once. He just found her twice.

I won't be pushing for this if Sienna was born while Rissa was still alive, it's obvious then, that they're two separate souls.

The other alternate is Rissa was never Hawke's mate. They were mistaken. There was even the word 'believed' when they talked of Rissa, as if Hawke wasn't 100% sure she's his mate.
But...given with how he'd reacted to her, I'm inclined to believe they're mates.
I can only accept either choice a) or b) as given in the book. I haven't found anything else yet that would support otherwise. :3
avatar
Yurice

Posts : 216
Join date : 2011-11-03

http://hawke-sienna.tk/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by ferdy on Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:45 pm

You make very good points, Yurice. And you notice things that I completely miss like the part of Hawke finding his mate twice.

At first I wanted A/R to have mate bond but thinking about it now if they did it would just make things even more confusing in regards to the mate bond.. so I hope they don't have it down the line.

For someone who wasn't in the series from the beginning, Adria has become one of my favourite characters. I think it's be really interesting to see what would happen if Adria's mate came along. There's so much to explore with Adra/Riaz/Lisette/Adria's mate and I'm quite sad that that's it for them now because their situation could shed light on the nuances of the mating bond and the feelings that go along with it.

How great would it be for Adria to realize that she's found her mate and then have her struggle between Riaz and her mate.. and have Riaz understand how it feels for the person they love to have a mating tug towards someone else..It'd just be so fascinating to read (for me anyway:P).

ferdy

Posts : 61
Join date : 2011-06-01

Back to top Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by SHELITA on Tue May 05, 2015 6:22 pm

I am re-reading the series and I didn't read all the posts on this forum but can someone possibly answer or clarify this for me?
How come a less dominant male can't mate with a more dominant female; but a less dominant female can mate with a more dominant male? This seems as if we are falling back on the stereotype that men must be the lead. Even with Drew and Indigo in PoP, it was constantly brought up that Drew's dominance was going to be stronger than Indigo's. I just want clarification.
avatar
SHELITA

Posts : 70
Join date : 2011-08-25
Age : 20
Location : DOTHAN

Back to top Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by degdelta on Tue May 12, 2015 6:04 pm

Hi Shelita.

What I have inferred about the dominance issue is that there is typical sexism involved. It's a big problem if you have a male, with all their ego issues, less dominant in power to a female. It's the same in "real life" - women are generally brought up, and/or inclined to defer to a man, but even men who are less dominant have a problem deferring to women. (All you need to do is look at the types of criticism leveled against female CEO's and politicians. A woman president! Scandalous!) Since the packs and clans are so closely intertwined in their living situations, having a bad relationship in their midst could unbalance the community. The new adults, both male and female, are not allowed to just figure relationship things out - they are guided by the maternal females, who would know from past history what works and what does not. The Adria/Martin situation pretty much shows what they do not want to have happen.

degdelta

Posts : 120
Join date : 2009-07-07

Back to top Go down

Re: The Mating Bond problem

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum