I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

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I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by countdown on Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:40 pm

This is a theory Ive had for quite a while about who Hawkes HEA is.

Spoiler:
Sienna

And although thats not much of a surprise I thought Id also hide my theory of why I think she is and how it came about because I dont want to spoil it for others (if it is correct). So please dont read further if u thing it will spoil things for u.

Spoiler:
I think Sienna is the girl that Hawke bonded with when they were young.
He thinks she died because she was taken away into Silence
and I read somewhere (sorry not sure where as I read them one after another and
its all a bit of a blur right now), that they were to be taken before 8yrs or
10yrs? So because she was so powerful she was put into Silence (maybe by Ming?)
to suppress all emotion etc. I think she is really 5 years or so older in
maturity etc, but the Silence plus maybe something else cut all emotion, and
maybe even physical development off to such a degree that 5 years or so of her
life was lost/in limbo/like in a coma etc.
When Silence came in and everything was cut off for Sienna,
it would have made Hawke think she had died, because that bond would have been
cut/or lost in Silence, and he would have felt her die, so to speak as she went
into Silence. He knew she was EPsy, and that’s why he knew stuff about Psy
already and has a deep hatred of Psy, because they killed her and his family.
So he believes she is dead, would not recognize her now physically and would not be able to
understand what is happening since he met her again. But that bond would
recognize Sienna right from their meeting again, and growing stronger. He would
be fighting it and not opening himself up as they can only have one mate like
this, yet his changeling side knows Siennas the one. It must be very confusing
to him, LoL.
As for Sienna, she cant remember. All that emotion and
bonding before that time would have been suppressed and she would have been
stripped of those memories as well. Yet since meeting Hawke again, that bond
would recognize her mate, but she cant even remember! So she is very confused
as well. (I thought there must have been some memory suppression going on in her mind before the last book, and then when Nalini wrote the story about Katyas? memories being suppressed I knew thats what must have happened to Sienna.)

Not sure if Judd knows about Hawke bonding with Sienna when they were young, but Siennas Mother must of. And part of her dying would have been to set Sienna and her family free. And somehow to throw Ming of the track so Sienna and the
rest of the family would not end up in rehabilitation. If her Mum didn’t tell
Judd the part about Siennas bonding with Hawke, she may have suggested/pushed
that they go to Hawkes pack, as she knew the family would be safe there, and
maybe even Sienna and Hawke would get their chance again.
Maybe thats also why Hawkes family was killed also, because they knew too much & knew they were each others HEA, so Ming? had to get rid of Hawkes family as well.
I think Sienna being with Kit is going to bring Hawke to his
knees, lol and really mess with him. The changeling side will never accept it,
is very territorial for his mate and has actually been waiting for years,
so he must be very impatient.
Sienna will be trying to block Hawke out because of the
danger of losing control and being with Kit will give her some sort of rest and
comfort, at least with Kit theres no deep emotion/bonding going on.
But that’s going to bust wide open…its just a matter a time. Her memories are starting to return...


Last edited by countdown on Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:50 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : didnt hide it)

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by countdown on Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:46 pm

Sorry, could some one tell me if I hid my theory properly, its not really showing on my screen and Im such a newbie.
Sorry again. Thanks!

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by Rageane on Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:45 pm

You hid it well, but your reasoning is way off...unless they cryo froze the person in question and changed her race, it is physically impossible for her to be that one, not to say that you are wrong...speculation on this has been going on since StS.
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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by countdown on Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:38 pm

Hi!
Did I miss something when u said...they would have to change her race, it is physically impossible for her to be that one...did Nalini say she was a changeling in the past, or something like that?
Also she may not have been physically suppressed just emotionally etc...Nalini has said shes older than her 19 yrs (or something like that). Does anyone know how old Hawke was when the girl died?
Anyway thanx I like discussing theories!

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by Rageane on Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:15 am

He was a child of like 8 yrs old or there abouts. The girl in question is older in terms of maturity and experience, not biologically...she was born 19 years ago from psy parents and whose mother killed herself, leaving her and her brother to the rest of the family to care for. Hawke's "mate" who died was a changeling not psy, it was the psy who killed the "mate" along with Hawke's family.
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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by countdown on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:04 pm

Yeah thanx, I knew that. Just wasnt sure if Nalini ever said his mate had been a changeling and not a psy. But if she definitely said it, then this theory would be wrong, lol.

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by countdown on Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:35 pm

Okay after reading the latest excerpt from Bonds of Justice, Im backing my theory!! lol!
And until I specifically see Nalini saying Hawkes past mate was neva a Psy...Im just gonna sit on it.

A couple of things jumped out from the excerpt which are these...

One: In all likelihood, she had less than a year
left before she was sentenced to comprehensive rehabilitation. Unlike
normal rehabilitation, the process wouldn’t only wipe out her
personality, leave her a drooling vegetable. Comprehensives had
ninety-nine percent of their psychic senses fried as well. All for
their own good of course.

Two: Not a single individual on this earth would remember her name after she disappeared from active duty.

But at eight years of age, she’d been given a single choice—become a J or die.
“I heard a lot of J-Psy have eidetic memories,” Max said, his eyes intent.

“Yes—but only when it comes to the images we take during the course of
our work.” She’d forgotten parts of her “real life,” but she’d never
forget even an instant of the things she’d seen over the years she’d
spent in the Justice Corps.

So yes, I believe Siennas "real life" had been wiped at Rehabilitation, and now shes started remembering small parts of it, from being close to Hawke e.g. like the pictures in the cave that upset her, she remembering because she was there.


At her Rehabilitation if she were 5yrs old (or there abouts), those 5 years of her personality would have been wiped out as well, she would have lost those years. So yes she really is 5yrs older in maturity. (See One above)


The only thing Im stuck on a bit is number Two. It says not a single individual would remember her name after she dissappeared...and Im wondering why Hawke would...is it becuz hes Changeling and their bond is too strong??









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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by countdown on Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:43 pm

Two: Not a single individual on this earth would remember her name after she disappeared from active duty.

Does the above mean
1/ No one on earth would remember her name? (like family etc) OR
2/ No single individual who had been Rehabilitated would remember her name? (her past name?)..lol

thanks guys!

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by Rageane on Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:07 am

How old is Hawke? Thirty two - Thirty Five? He was around 8 to 10 years old when his "Mate" was killed. How can you possibly think that this 19 year old girl can be his 30 year old mate? Not to mention that his mate when she was described was not mentioned to be a cardinal...or the fact that she is blood related to Judd and Walker, who would have been too old and powerful for them to have their memories messed with. I think you are stretching for this, the J-psy are just being introduced to us as a power of Psy...how do you know for absolute certainty that what happens with these children of this designation is what happens to others as a whole? Do not take for granted the need of the lack of emotion for Sienna to survive with her powers...she is one of the reasons that Silence exists in the first place...her powers are too volitile and she has no control over them when her emotions are involved. I am a non-believer of the theory, until it is stated outright that this is what happened by Nalini herself...I just don't see it.
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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by countdown on Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:18 pm

Rageane, ur right, this is only a theory not facts. I could be totally wrong, and thats fine. So no I dont have all the answers, and I am not absolutely certain about anything, lol.
But I enjoy discussing and seeing what other ppl think as well.

So back to my theory...
Hawke is 32yrs old. If he were say 10 yrs old when his mate died that leaves a 22 yr gap. If his Mate was Rehabilitated at 5yrs old her personality etc would have been wiped out. So she would have to start from the beginning again, like 0 years old, because her previous "real life" is all gone and Maybe being a Cardinal it would take longer Rehabilitating her seeing she was so powerful.
So she would now be around 22 yrs old.

To answer some of ur questions, why would we need to be told that his past mate was cardinal?
Or why should we be told that she was related to Judd and Walker? Who says that they dont know what happened, maybe they know something we dont?
Nothing much has been said about his Past mate at all. We are guessing alot.
And of course I am stretching, these are theories, nothing is absolutely certain yet, and like u said until Nalini states outright herself no one can be certain of anything...

...thats why Im keeping an open mind.

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A possible clue ... maybe

Post by Sam on Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:27 am

I have another possible theory. I’m wondering if Nalini gave us a hint in Blaze of Memory.
Spoiler: don't read below if you have not read Blaze of Memory - spoiler below



On page 349, Katya is asking Dev to let her go (die) and he finally tells her "Go then,...My Life... Just remember-the next ten or so lifetimes, you're spending with me.”

So the question is, should we take this as a subtle hint and just maybe Sienna has been with Hawke in previous lifetimes?

Just wondering, I don’t care how Nalini wraps it up, I just know I’m dying for Hawke’s book and hoping like mad that Sienna is his mate.

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by countdown on Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:50 am

Hadnt noticed that Sam, very good spotting!

Im a real Sienna and Hawke fan also, hehe. So Ive asked myself these questions:

IF
1/ Sienna and Hawke are mates,
2/ and Nalini said she wouldnt pull a bait and switch
2/ and you can only have 1 mate in ur lifetime? (dont know if this is so?)

then how would these 2 work out as each others HEA??
For sure, Nalini would be dropping clues, leading up to their story.

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by tabitha on Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:53 am

I've only read the first two books so far but my theory on Hawkes mate is
that she will be a Psy
(I was going with Sienna too but after reading changlings only have one mate and his died when he was a child then this doesn't fit due to the age gap).
That she's been hidden by the council and was rehabilited and possible in a vegative state or something (hence why she hasn't remembered or found Hawke and why he thinks she's dead).
I think that somehow she is linked to the netmind and maybe he dreams of her and the changlings and Laurens join together to rescue her when Faith works out that Hawkes dream's aren't just dreams this leads to the eventual destruction of Psy-net and all out war between the two packs and the couuncil.

Well that's my theory and it would explain why he flirts with Psy women when other pack members don't find them attractive (at least to start with) and why his pack hide the Lauren's.
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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by Sam on Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:18 am

I'm stilling leaning towards Sienna, specially after reading Branded by Fire, even though I thought they were mates before BBF.

Also, Hawke was very young when he thought the young girl was his mate, he might have been reading his feeling wrong due to being 8 or 10.

Hoping, Hoping Hawke and Sienna are mates.

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by countdown on Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:37 pm

Sophia Russo is a Justice-Psy, cursed with the ability to retrieve memories...

Im wondering if Sophia Russo will be the one used to help Sienna retrieve her memories of her "past life" and this will help Sienna gain more control.
I think this has a huge part in her breaking apart.

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by sephora on Sun May 02, 2010 2:09 pm

Personally, i am of the mind that Hawke misread his emotions as a child..
The girl who died couldnt have been his mate.. Coz, dang diggidy Damnitt..it has to be Sienna!!
Sorry, could you tell how much i want Hawke/Sienna?
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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by whynot9 on Mon May 03, 2010 9:53 am

I also think that Hawke misread his emotions as a child. Either that or since the mating bond didn't have a chance to form, whatever 'magic' happens so that changelings only have one mate couldn't happen. There's a scene in CbI with Hawke & Brenna where it says Hawke & the girl would have been too young for that bond to form. If that's the case, maybe Sienna (or someone else) *could* be Hawke's mate, because he never *truly* had one to begin with.

Since he *thinks* he did, though, when he starts to have feelings for someone, he would feel like he was betraying that girl. Kind of like Dorian felt like he was betraying his murdered sister when he first started having feelings for Ashaya. That sure made Dorian grumpy, & could explain Hawke's reaction to Sienna if she is his mate.

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by tabitha on Sat May 08, 2010 12:22 pm

I still don't think it's Sienna, I know in the books it's true she has feelings for him but I only think he wants her because she reminds him of his actual mate Smile
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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by Cadence on Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:05 pm

lol I am enjoying everyone's debating. I would like to join!

My theory is this : KISS. Keep it simple!
If you hear hooves in Central Park, don't go looking for a zebra.
There is only one mate for changelings, that is true. However once the mating dance starts, the female can choose whether or not to complete the bond. In PoP, Indigo states this when they first find out they are in the dance.
Which could imply that, while there is only one mate, there are multiple potential mates. (This could be an incorrect interpretation, I realize the mating bond is rare.)
However, it is well known that changelings can marry and have kids with non-mates and be happy.
So either Sienna isn't his true mate, but they still end up together (which I don't think is going to happen), or Hawke misunderstood his feelings.

Countdown, your theory seems really far fetched. I mean if Sienna needed to be rehabilitated, they would just do it, and put her somewhere. Why would they erase up to 12 years of her life (that is around her and Hawke's age difference)?
Rehabilitation isn't something you can come back from. You are literally a potato, only able to do basic things. It is obvious Sienna is not fully rehabilitated. And, even if she was partially rehabilitated, she would still know who she was.

If Sienna did something big as a child, bigger than the basic Psy child screw up, she would be executed for everyone's safety.

And they would have to be in the same area too. And I am pretty sure Hawke lived with changelings his whole life. Same with Sienna and Psy.

I was actually thinking along the same lines, except not Sienna, so I was looking for clues as to what happened. I am pretty sure some part of the den caved in and they found her body.

I will have to go back and find that conversation, because I am also thinking that other people knew her as well.

It just seems too complicated.

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by Lorraine on Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:17 am

It seems probable after PoP that Hawke and Sienna are mates. I think that Hawke, being a child, mistook his deep love for his friend and interpreted it to mean they were mates, but in actuality Sienna is his mate. *At least I really hope so*

Their scenes together in PoP were wonderful and seemed to imply a very deep connection between them. I can't wait for Hawke's book!

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by countdown on Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:51 pm

I found the back cover blurb for "Kiss of Snow" really interesting and it answered some of our questions.

1/ Sienna looks to be Hawkes HEA.

2/ According to the blurb, Hawke didnt mistake or misread his feelings when he was younger and that girl was meant to be his mate. Excerpt reads...
" Hawke is used to walking alone, having lost the woman who would’ve been his mate long ago."

So either, 1/ the bond was made & that was his 1 shot at a once in a lifetime true mate OR
2/ the bond was never finished and so he gets another shot?
Its simple if its the latter because obviously that is where Sienna comes in and its a straight simple story.

I just think Nalini could put a spanner in the works so to speak, and write the story from no 1/ which would be really interesting and harder to do.
Hence my theory that the young girl could have been Sienna, and if so what and how did this happen?

To answer some of ur questions, Cadence u said that if Sienna did something big as a child she would have been executed by Psy.
My answer is not that she DID something big that she WAS something big - a Psy X. They didnt want her destroyed but wanted her utilized, trained by Ming (or whoever it was) to mentor her and use her. She would be a terrific weapon. So maybe the 1st step was she needed to be captured, rehabilitated (yes not fully) to bring her in under full Psy control.

I think Sienna and her family (mother etc) were living freer not under Psy control or domain, and in or around the area where Hawke and the wolves use to live (when he was younger), hence they met then, and their bond would have been forming.

Somehow The Psy would have found out about Sienna being X. Thats why they attacked the Snowdancers back then, who were friendly with Siennas family. Ming wanted Sienna primarily.
Hawkes family and others were killed, Sienna and family captured and rehabilited to wipe her memories and life. Thats when Hawke would have felt the bond break, believing his mate was dead.

I also found it interesting on the blurb that said...

"...only the most intimate of battles between two people who were never meant to meet."

Why would it say they werent meant to meet? And why?
In the other Psy changeling stories and pairings I dont think it said that?
To me its siginifcant for Nalini to mention that on the back of the book.

Also it said that a deadly enemy is out to destroy the Snowdancer, striking everything they hold dear.
Is this the past repeating itself when the Psy nearly wiped out the Snowdancers once before?

And finally, "Sienna’s darkest secret that may yet savage the pack that is her home…and the alpha who is its heartbeat…"

What is Sienna darkest secret, that has the power to destroy the Snowdancers and Hawke?

Cant wait to find out what happens!

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by cheebee on Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:12 pm

NM

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by ConvertMePlease on Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:43 am

QUOTE - To answer some of ur questions, Cadence u said that if Sienna did something big as a child she would have been executed by Psy.
My answer is not that she DID something big that she WAS something big - a Psy X. They didnt want her destroyed but wanted her utilized, trained by Ming (or whoever it was) to mentor her and use her. She would be a terrific weapon. So maybe the 1st step was she needed to be captured, rehabilitated (yes not fully) to bring her in under full Psy control.

If Sienna was captured by Ming as a child she would have NEVER been allowed to go back to her family. She would have been isolated and trained like Faith with Ming in charge.

QUOTE - And finally, "Sienna’s darkest secret that may yet savage the pack that is her home…and the alpha who is its heartbeat…" What is Sienna darkest secret, that has the power to destroy the Snowdancers and Hawke?

I have a feeling that her darkest secret is the fact that she is one of the mythical X-psy that people don't know too much about. Remember, in BBF Sienna almost destroyed the den when she was admiring the painting on the wall and she lost control of her power so a huge crack formed.
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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by tabitha on Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:11 pm

I think that the bloodshed in teh SnowDancer pack 20 years ago in which Hawke's mate died was because they had Psy/forgotten members and the Psy Council wanted them back.

I also think Hawkes intended mate was part-psy or a psy hence his knowledge of them and willingness to offer the Lauren's sanctury. I think that Judd somehow knew this and this was why he took the chance of being killed.

I think Sienna's secret is that she is an X-psy.

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Re: I think I know who Hawkes HEA is and How...

Post by countdown on Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:34 am

Yeah I agree, I too think that Sienna being X-psy is the big secret that has the power to destroy.
But I think theres more though, especially with Nalini saying these two people were never meant to meet, as if they were purposely kept apart.

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