Okay....so how good was that?

The problem with Hawke's discussion is that those couples didn't find their mates before their committed relationship, now if they were to have similarly rejected a mate like Riaz did, then yeah, I'd agree. Nate's parents didn't bond, they're committed to each other too, loved each other in 'the old fashioned way' if memory serves me right. but no bond.

Dalton said it might be Riaz who finds the answer if he'll be able to bond again after rejecting his mate. He also said there were hints to suggest that the bond disappeared for the two lieutenants, but that's not an actual confirmation. The last time Riaz spoke with Lisette, the bond was still there, despite him loving Adria. If one is not privy to his innerthoughts, no one will know that that bond is still in place, and would assume that it has broken down too.

I do not think that the bond instinct is that easy to get rid of. I feel that the fact that he fought it and even his wolf was no longer that keen spoke more about how Lisette felt. She loved Emil. I think the urge for the mating bond can only be more strong when the parties are unattached and do not love others. Initially he felt it very bad and it ravaged him to not be able to have her. Then he fell in love and Lisette being free had no impact. Yes the tug was there but that is perhaps biological not logical. He may feel it but that does not mean at any time he wants to mate with her after he has fallen in love the urge is strong or the wolf pushes him. It was made clear the wolf accepted Adria and I think with time the urge will fade.

Is this unfair to Adria to some extent yes but this is a man that fought his own mate bond to be with her. That is a huge statement of "I love you",it's even more strong that just acting on an urge because your wolf tells you. He fought it to be with her that should mean something. It is not the all encompassing soul meld like mating is but I do not think the love is less strong.

I understand that you all want to experience the bond the other bonded mates have so far achieved but how trite will Nalini's writing be if she stuck to that formula. She has to expand tell different stories and she convinced me that he loved her because he explained himself to Hawke.

I think that going solely on a bond urge and bonding with someone who might prove to be unsuitable is not the kind of stories we want to read. The female and male should be able to reject the bond should the person they are destined to mate prove not suitable. As in this case someone who loves another is certainly not someone you want to mate. Why can't you make that decision based on who you love and who you feel is more suited to you.

I can see that many might argue that the mating urge fixes all issues of compatibility or even where the parties may not even like one another like two enemies but the person should have choice which is why Dalton talked of following your heart. In the earlier stories Nalini did make the mating bond very attractive and all encompassing but I think her writing in this book was exceptional because she made me believe Riaz loved Adria. To me the fact that he would continue to work with Lisette is not a problem because he has more than demonstrated his devotion to Adria. The best part was him realising she was expecting him to leave her one day and how much that hurt him thinking she was hurting that way. That made me tear . Nalini has such a gift two people who I thought I would not be interested in really unlike how much I was interested in reading about Sienna and Hawke I actually enjoyed reading about.

I don't think the mating bond is the universal fix in a relationship.^^
Just because they're mated doesn't mean all their problems/issues will now disappear. However the bond makes their relationship more special in that they have a deeper connection that is more than physical, or emotional. They'll still have to iron out the kinks.

I didn't really care for Riaz, which is probably why I'm not convinced of his love, to me he's just being stubborn, refusing to go back on his word, on his commitment to Adria.
Adria however, I liked a lot. Her pain, her insecurities felt real. I wanted her to be a mate to someone, even if it's not Riaz, not because the bond will solve all problems in a relationship, but because in the changeling world, being mate is first place.
Yes, practically, perhaps it doesn't matter much when Riaz will love her and cherish her as a true mate, but to me, their relationship is like a jigsaw puzzle that is 99% complete.^^

I was kinda upset about a few things. 1) being that Adria and Riaz were in the background to their own story. It was like every 3-5 sub stories you would get theirs tangled in. Whereas people like in Bonds of Jutice and the other 2 books they got full novels and now we barely hear about them. 2) Now I love me some Hawke and SnowDancer, but I don't like how it is more about the wolves. It's like Hawke is everyone's alpha and Luke has been left out in the cold. Even when Hawke talks about meetings and setting things up he mentions the DarkRiver sententials, but never saying I need to talk this over with Luke see what he thinks. I just think that the books have lead away from two working alphas and packs together to just one and the first alpha we got to know and love has been left to the way side. I also would like to have more books involving DarkRiver again. I miss them.

What do others thinks?

BlackQueen, I totally agree. I do like the wolves more than the cats, I think it's because I don't like most of the heroines in DrakRiver - their all Mary Sue's esp Sasha, Faith, Tammy and Ashaya. But Hawke does seem the more alpha of the two, regarding setting up alliances and meetings..it's like he just uses DrakRiver for extra muscle and info..maybe it's just because Lucas was busy with Sasha and the baby??
I hope there's more Lucas acting alpha in the books but I'd prefer if the books stick to Hawke's terriority.
In general I don't love the books as much as I used to, a big reason being that the style changed in KoS and ToN - having too many POV's and it felt like earlier couples got their own story but Hawke/Sienna and Riaz/Adria had to share it..I did apprecaite having more H/S in ToN but then it came at the cost of Adria/Riaz. The other main reason my opinion the series has gone down as a whole for me is the murkiness and lack of clarity in the mating rules since KoS..it just feels like there a bunch of potential mates/life long partners for each character and whoever they just so happen to meet first is who they end up with..so basically what the hero/heroine feel for each other isn;t something unique and special because someone completely different could have filled that role.
Psy/Changeling is still one of my fave series but I don't hold it in as much as esteem as I once did. I feel that Nalini only changed the tone of the books and the mating rules just so things would stay fresh and original but in doing that it's tainted my view of all the previous HEA's and books.

Damn wolves.

BlackQueen, I totally agree. I do like the wolves more than the cats, I think it's because I don't like most of the heroines in DrakRiver - their all Mary Sue's esp Sasha, Faith, Tammy and Ashaya. But Hawke does seem the more alpha of the two, regarding setting up alliances and meetings..it's like he just uses DrakRiver for extra muscle and info..maybe it's just because Lucas was busy with Sasha and the baby??

SnowDancer is the dominant partner in the relationship. DarkRiver controls San Franscisco, but SnowDancer controls the rest of California. So, when you get right down to it, Hawke *is* more alpha.

I get the feeling that all changelings have been so insular that they do t really know everything about the mating bond (obviously) because they accept what generally happens as "the rules" and don't compare enough with other groups to know what CAN happen.

I have a theory. Although the mating bond is certainly a reality within the pack and is in fact the most common type of bond, I think the more immediate or rapid "mine" moments of bonding with someone you haven't known and are not from the pack are more than just fate. More than, oh this is the person that completes my soul.

It usually in the series occurs with people who are not changelings or who are not the same kind of changling. I think it's a biological mechanism meant to ensure genetic diversity in a race that tends towards extreme insularity.

Whst do you think? Gives me hope for riaz and adria in any case.

cheebee wrote:I have a theory. Although the mating bond is certainly a reality within the pack and is in fact the most common type of bond, I think the more immediate or rapid "mine" moments of bonding with someone you haven't known and are not from the pack are more than just fate. More than, oh this is the person that completes my soul.

It usually in the series occurs with people who are not changelings or who are not the same kind of changling. I think it's a biological mechanism meant to ensure genetic diversity in a race that tends towards extreme insularity.

Whst do you think? Gives me hope for riaz and adria in any case.

I totally agree with you! I mean it makes more sense and it will help with the changling population as well. Look at all the pregnancies that have been happening. They are all occurring with couples that are not from the same group. So I believe that it ensures that the changling can have more babies that are half, but are still able to shift. IDK just a thinking rant.

The thing is, the pack have human packmates, mated or adopted like Singliu and Kieran, they're not that isolated or completely cut off to the world outside their territory. I guess, what I'm saying is, if the bond exists to ensure that genetic diversity, then it would make sense that they will only mate with other races or animal species different from their own.

In regards to kids, it's said they have low fertility rate, and it's even harder for nonmates to have kids but still possible, so I'm thinking the bond got something more of biological compatibility rather than ensuring diversity.

cheebee wrote:I have a theory. Although the mating bond is certainly a reality within the pack and is in fact the most common type of bond, I think the more immediate or rapid "mine" moments of bonding with someone you haven't known and are not from the pack are more than just fate. More than, oh this is the person that completes my soul.

That is certainly possible. Most of the mated pair stories we know have involved an outsider. Drew/Indigo, Hawke/Theresa (I consider them an Honorary Mated Pair), and Nate/Tammy are the only ones I can think of where both members were born and raised in the same pack.

Yurice wrote:The thing is, the pack have human packmates, mated or adopted like Singliu and Kieran, they're not that isolated or completely cut off to the world outside their territory. I guess, what I'm saying is, if the bond exists to ensure that genetic diversity, then it would make sense that they will only mate with other races or animal species different from their own.

I think SnowDancer's habit of adopting non-Changeling children might be unique. Or at least unusual. The need to protect may be something of an imperative but that doesn't mean a changeling has to adopt every foundling that comes their way. They could just leave the kid at an orphanage or something.

We've not heard of a "PureChargeling" group but they are almost certainly out there.

I think adoption is probably rare. I would though like to here stories like Sam's. Is he adopted? Obviously he's human and not a halfling. Was his mother someone's mate?

I'd like to add that it is still possible for Riaz and Adria to develop the MB later in their relationship. (Example given - Drew and Indigo knew each other for years before it showed up.)

However, I don't think they need it. They've chosen each other and that's pretty darn special.

Well they are certainly selective on who they call their own.
The pure changeling existence if indeed it does exist, only shows that the mating bond isn't just to ensure the genetic diversity, because to remain 'pure' they would have to reject mating with an 'outsider'.

If one of Sam's parents is a changeling, he will be able to shift too. At least that was what Lucas said in StP. I'm guessing he's either adopted or like the Laurens, his entire family included.

maybe his mother had him with ahuman and just remarried