Kiss of Snow: It's out. First impressions?

Okay- like many of you a stayed up all night when this came out (than went to work) and finished the book after. I then crashed so I need to go back and reread parts of the book -now that I feel human again!
Some thoughts:
1) I had no idea E's could do a total wipe of a persons memory that way. I wonder what else they can do!
2) Walker is amazing and his role training the Arrows explains so much as to why so many of them were able to resist Ming. I cried when Walker was talking with Lara about not being able to protect his child.
3) I want to applaud Sienna-what a brave, strong person! Love how she told Hawke she would give him everything but her obedience to orders because he was Alpha & called him a coward!
4) The Alice story line reads to me like a setup for the future. I admit to being absolutely shocked with how it all played out. (and are there any others out there in that state)?
5) Nikita & Anthony are a very interesting combination. I think that potential storyline could be very strong.
6) Judd found out some information on the person Xavier was looking for. I hope this leads to some peace for him.
7) Why do you think this is the end of the arc? Is it because now the Council no longer is in control and it is now open war?
What do you think the significance of the statue was to Titiana? Whatever it was, it was enough to make her back off for the time being.
9) I wonder if Henry is dead-probalby just severly injured as Arden did not mention his death. Too bad!
10) I really hate Ming! Hearing about this training techniques lead to wonder how horribly Santo Enrique treated his protege Kaleb.

Quote:: But first...Ferdy? Like the ant from the cartoon? The one with a snail and a bug named Gwendolyn?

Ferdy's my nickname-everyone calls me this - work, friends and family.. it's short for ferdous which people tend to struggle to pronounce. I've not heard of the cartoon ant before.

Anyway the whole mating bonds seems a bit random at times Hawke, his dad, Clay (?) knew who their mates were as soon as they saw them but then you have riley&mercy, andrew&indigo who knew each other for years and only figured out they were mates after been in a relationship with them.. it doesn't really add up.

Also Rissa is described as having a completely different personality to Sienna so how could she have been Hawke's mate but yet Sienna can also be his mate.. it doesn't make sense that they both are in a sense his perfect mate but both are very different.

I've got a bit of a love/hate relationship with Hawke at the moment, I just feel sorry for Sienna that she has to share his heart, soul and love with a girl that's been dead over 20 years (even though she's come to terms with this) whereas all the other couples get 100% of their mates.

Also i'm wondering what would happen if a changeling happens to meet 2 potential mates at the same time.. the likelihood of it happening would very very low but I'd be interested to know how it would play out.

P.s I have soft spot for Riley, I used to have it for Hawke but after KOS not so much.. i still love him but he's not my cup of tea.

Here's the thing that bothered me about Hawke. He never apologized for making Sienna feel like that she wasn't good enough for him. Don't get me wrong. He did some incredible swoon worthy things (the games, the courtship, saving her from being a human torch, etc) but he never apologizes for the hot 'n cold behavior.

The hot 'n cold behavior, in itself, doesn't bother me because that's typical romantic fodder. He's so freaked out by being drawn to her from the beginning that he uses her age and his perceived inability to bond as an excuse to keep her at arms length. But it turns out he can't be away from her so he ends up being that schoolyard boy that pull the hair of the girl he likes cuz he doesn't know of any other way to show affection. Throughout the series, he pushes Sienna until she pushes back, then says she's child and immature because she lashes out when everyone else just cowers under his massive alphaness. Then he throws her crumbs of affection, walks with her in the woods, talks to her by Drew's 'I got my ass shot again' bedside.

Once he realized that Rosalie couldn't scratch his itch, that only Sienna was going to solve his nuclear case of blue balls, he bulldozes her with courtship. She is so starved for his attention that she doesn't demand an apology first. She stands up to him, calls him in his bullshit, is willing to take a relationship w/o a mating bond and he still NEVER apologizes for being a douche. He takes her love for granted and in the end, yes, he loves her, blah blah, but he STILL NEVER APOLOGIZES TO HIS MATE. In the end, for all the age difference, she turned out to be way more mature than he was.

Sorry, tldr; but Sienna was freaking awesome and Hawke, much less so. LOL. Doesn't mean I didn't like the book or won't reread it. I just didn't love it.

ferdy wrote:
Anyway the whole mating bonds seems a bit random at times Hawke, his dad, Clay (?) knew who their mates were as soon as they saw them but then you have riley&mercy, andrew&indigo who knew each other for years and only figured out they were mates after been in a relationship with them.. it doesn't really add up.

P.s I have soft spot for Riley, I used to have it for Hawke but after KOS not so much.. i still love him but he's not my cup of tea.

I see the mating bond as a radio that needs to be tuned to the right frequency (time and circumstance, in this case). Had Rissa lived, she would have mated with Hawke because when they met, they clicked. She would have helped him thru his rage at what happened with his dad. By the time Hawke would have met Sienna Lauren on that cold, snowy mountain, he would not have been the same man. Had he been healed, he wouldn't have been a blip in Sienna's romantic radar. She would have more likely mated with Clay or Dorian for example. Riley and Mercy were circling each other the minute they met and there was a treaty. They didn't mate until they were both ready to leave their respective packs for each other. Drew always had the hots for Indigo, but at fourteen, he wasn't anywhere near ready to keep pace with her so he wasn't in her romantic radar. They didn't mate until she recognized that what she thought she wanted for a mate was not what she needed and that Drew was exactly what she needed.

I totally love Riley, too

I am thinking that the mate is who is perfect for you at that time in your life. At the time when he met Rissa she was perfect for who the man he was going to be. But he had a lot of later tragedy that made Sinna perfect for him since they can relate. I think if Rissa had lived and gone through the tragedy of his father's death with him she would have remained perfect for him.

I actually though Hawke acted more like how I pictured an alpha to be. Lucas has never seemed as alpha to me as Hawke.

I kind of like the predictiable nature of the books in some ways. Problems are discovered, overcome and they end up basically happy. I could wish for it to be mixed up with a little death or tragedy of some minor characters, and maybe a former major character. I could see something like Mercy fighting, starting to lose and Riley going in to save her and they both die. Very sad, but it would make sense for both to go down together.

I didn't like that all the healers got "super powers" and healed everything! It seemed a little like a cop out so no one would die. I would have been sad if Elias had died, but it wouldn't have killed the story. Maybe then (since I'm assuming Yuki would have died) that someone would adopt their daughter - maybe Brenna and Judd or Riley and Mercy. That would have followed since they would know what it was like to lose both parents.
Just some random thoughts!

I get what a lot of you are saying about Hawke but I think he does grovel and apologize in his way, though he doesn't say "I'm sorry for. . ." (that I can recall).

At the very end, around page 410/411 he says to Sienna that she was right, he was a coward and he says it exactly like that in those words.

Lulu2011 wrote:I get what a lot of you are saying about Hawke but I think he does grovel and apologize in his way, though he doesn't say "I'm sorry for. . ." (that I can recall).

At the very end, around page 410/411 he says to Sienna that she was right, he was a coward and he says it exactly like that in those words.

Lulu i love you, lol. just what i was thinking.

Lisa Jo wrote:I didn't like that all the healers got "super powers" and healed everything! It seemed a little like a cop out so no one would die. I would have been sad if Elias had died, but it wouldn't have killed the story. Maybe then (since I'm assuming Yuki would have died) that someone would adopt their daughter - maybe Brenna and Judd or Riley and Mercy. That would have followed since they would know what it was like to lose both parents.
Just some random thoughts!

While I was okay with the healers getting super powers for a bit (mainly because hyper!Lara was funny) I'm totally with you about the lack of death. This is a major battle in a world war in the series. You don't just come out of something like that without losing a percentage of your people. Maybe I'm bloodthirsty, I don't know.

I'm a little worried about how the rest of the series is going to go. If NS can't kill off characters the books are going to lose a lot of appeal to me due to the improbability of the content. I'm a sci-fi/fantasy girl all around, but in order for me to like a book I have to believe the story could happen. The books are already trying my patience due to the over-the-top goody-two-shoesness of the changelings. I don't think I could take the books having another unrealistic aspect.

As for Hawke... Well, I wasn't a Hawke lover to begin with, I belong on Team Lucas (ugh. Twilight allusion. *is disappointed in self*). I just wasn't interested in Mr. Snow. I don't think the book did him justice though, he felt blah to me.

You're absolutely right, Lulu. He does apologize to his mate and just rereading that section it's pretty swoon worthy. I just can't explain that taken as a whole, it left me just lukewarm? I certainly didn't want him to start crying and begging for forgiveness (there's grovel and then there's alpha grovel LOL). Maybe I wanted some recognition earlier? Even if it was internal monologue where he realized he had a lot to make up for? (Quite possibly nitpicking on my part.) I don't know other than it totally tainted my view of him. I still like Hawke and there are amazing sequences that made me squee like a rabid Hawke/Sienna fangirl. It's just not as shiny as it was before.

catikins wrote:That's an interesting thought mj, what is her role going to be as a soldier now - is she still going to be a soldier??

I assume so. Sienna says she'll accept her rank and take orders from those who are more senior, but never Hawke. I do understand why she says that to him. If Hawke orders her around, they won't have an equal partnership.

I'm just a little bothered that if Hawke gives an order to the whole den, she'll be the only one not to obey it. I've read books where one of the partners had senior rank. In the world of Star Trek, in the starship Titan series of books, when Captain Will Riker gives an order to his wife, Commander Troi, she obeys it when they are on duty. When they are off duty, it's a different matter. And maybe that explains it all - the fact that Hawke is never off duty; he is always the alpha.

Lady Jaye wrote:hmm - is Judd your favorite character?
you wanted sienna and kit?

Lady Jaye, Judd's one of my favorites when it comes to Nalini's males. I also like Clay and Kit. I liked Hawke.. once. No, I still like all of them, but Judd's story is too nice to think about why it's unrealistic or something like that, you know?

And no, I was.. hm..I was Hawkexhismate, Kitxhismate, Siennaxhermate. I don't care who this mate is. As long as they're happy together? And in the Psy|Changeling-world that usually happens when they're mated.... mated :< Gr. But you already know that I don't like the mating-concept so I'll keep my thoughts to myself.. after already telling everyone about them it's not such a hard thing to do.. :>

Ah, I'd answer to the other things, too, because.. aaaah! But my friend's calling me (00:30 am. Thank you friend. I know I don't sleep when normal human beings do, but why do you have to remind me that you know, too?)


About the soldier-rank. This is exactly what I've been talking about weeks ago. We don't see their everyday life, we don't know how this'll work out et cetera. I'm really excited to see this in the upcoming books. Gnaaa!! A year, it's just a year.. And there'll be anthologies and GH #04.

I loved it absolutely, but I could be so deep in the kool-aid pool as to overlook a few things. I KNEW her power had to do with fire, I like the way the mating resolves, it leaves things less black and white as regards to the iron clad rule of mates. Hawke, wow what can I say, he's a sex fantasy come to life on the pages. BUT fantasies can be so short lived and Walker is the reality I'd rather have in my life on a daily basis. Love the book and will reread a lot. Anyone get the newsletter? Adria's (Indigo's aunt) next and guess who her "mate" is going to be?

CK90 wrote:You're absolutely right, Lulu. He does apologize to his mate and just rereading that section it's pretty swoon worthy. I just can't explain that taken as a whole, it left me just lukewarm? I certainly didn't want him to start crying and begging for forgiveness (there's grovel and then there's alpha grovel LOL). Maybe I wanted some recognition earlier? Even if it was internal monologue where he realized he had a lot to make up for? (Quite possibly nitpicking on my part.) I don't know other than it totally tainted my view of him. I still like Hawke and there are amazing sequences that made me squee like a rabid Hawke/Sienna fangirl. It's just not as shiny as it was before.

CK90, I also wouldn't have minded him having some internal dialogue with himself about what he'd been doing to Sienna and how he desperately wanted to make things right with her. I'm sure word count probably got in the way and there were things Nalini wished she could have included. I sure hope she'll post any deleted or expanded scenes from the book down the road on her site!

I think the other thing about Hawke that needs to be kept in mind is that he's a wolf alpha not a cat alpha. The cat's are smoother, more polished to me when they're wooing their mates. Hawke is a wolf and they just strike me as more abrupt, rougher around the edges, not as smooth talking (unless you're Drew!). I think that's part of it too. Lots of pretty words don't come easily for Hawke.

Did anyone by chance get to listen/watch to the live stream chat she did on Penguin's Paranormal Project facebook page? I couldn't as I was out at the time.

I liked KOS. But as I knew...deep inside...CBI will always be my favorite. I liked Lara/Walker's story in the book. It made sense. Walker doesn't have as much emotional turmoil or darkness in his past like Judd does, so I guess it makes sense he didn't get his own book. And I honestly felt a novella would be waaay too short for them anyway.

The whole 'alice isn't dead' thing kinda flipped me off. I was at a point where I was like ...'wait..what?!'

I liked the battle scenes...but it felt cheesy at some parts. And I felt it wasn't epic enough. I wanted casualties and blood loss and some crazy ''OMFG NO WAY!" moments. But in the end. Everyone was a-okay and dandy. There should've been someone dying. It felt like too much of a happy ending. Not that I'm a pessimist or anything but...you know?

I thought Tai & Evie were adorable. Walker was smokin hot sexy. And I love me some Hawke lovin' though personally I was annoyed by the whole ''push & tug'' routine with him and Sienna. In the end, the book was good and I enjoyed it. I have some minor complaints but...I was happy with the results.

twixter_tea wrote:


I thought Tai & Evie were adorable.

Tai and Evie were awesome. I bet Indigo was really pissed when they kissed eachother in front of her. Hope they will stay together

I think I know why so many of us thought the battle scene was kind of lame. We are so used to hearing about awful past tragedy as almost a way of life.
Things they couldn't stop. SnowDancer wasn't weak yet Psy that aren't council were able to sneak in and compromise the pack were able to almost destroy it. Granted they were sneaky and that the situation put SD on high alert, but the fact that a whole army didn't kill one person? Really? It wouldn't have even had to be someone we knew or even had a name. Just say they had losses - 20 people died. Civilian deaths in San Fransico or something!
She's built tragedy into the series and it wouldn't be unexpected for any of us to see someone die. I don't want death, but it seems unrealistic to have no one die. We've come to expect and accecpt it. I'll still keep reading - don't get me wrong. I am in love with the wolves (I used to "own" a wolf hybrid) and I really want to hear more about Alexi "the Russian Bridegroom!"

Lisa Jo wrote:I think I know why so many of us thought the battle scene was kind of lame. We are so used to hearing about awful past tragedy as almost a way of life.
Things they couldn't stop. SnowDancer wasn't weak yet Psy that aren't council were able to sneak in and compromise the pack were able to almost destroy it. Granted they were sneaky and that the situation put SD on high alert, but the fact that a whole army didn't kill one person? Really? It wouldn't have even had to be someone we knew or even had a name. Just say they had losses - 20 people died. Civilian deaths in San Fransico or something!
She's built tragedy into the series and it wouldn't be unexpected for any of us to see someone die. I don't want death, but it seems unrealistic to have no one die. We've come to expect and accecpt it. I'll still keep reading - don't get me wrong. I am in love with the wolves (I used to "own" a wolf hybrid) and I really want to hear more about Alexi "the Russian Bridegroom!"

I agree with you Lisa Jo. A big battle like that would´ve caused some deaths... And someone human must have recognized that there was something going on?! I mean, we´re definitely not the popular race in this series but we´re neither deaf and blind nor absolutely stupid

I did mention before I would write some things when you all got a chance to read the book. Thanks to Pat I got to read it before it came out and thank you again sweetheart for that.


Many of you have remonstrated about the lack of apology from Hawke for Hawke's earlier behaviour of hot and cold and making Sienna feel inadequate. Let us look at the point he decided to go after her. At that point of time his opinion about them getting together was based on him admitting to himself he could not substitute her with Rosa, he realised in fact he could not substitute her with anyone. I do not think he was at all happy with that thought initially because he had not changed his opinion about his misgivings about her being too young or that he was shortchanging her on the mate bond and that she deserved better. Under those circumstances any apology he might offer for his earlier behaviour is completely false. He has not changed his mind at all about their unsuitability in fact he is really forced into it because he cannot deny it any longer and the thought that she might lose her virginity to Kit made him see red. No he behaved honestly but of course from our point of view as champions of Sienna who understand her steel of character we are rightly outraged. Walk a mile in his shoes.

However when he slowly uncovered more about her he began to see she really was not that young or even for that matter innocent as far as death and cruelty went. He saw the strength of her character and she began to impress him on several levels and he would never have totally fallen in love with her had he not accepted fully that irrespective of the lack of the mating bond he wanted her as an equal. That is a significant step considering his earlier opinion of her. He is arrogant and he did ride roughshod over her on ocassion of her expelling her powers and asking him to stay away and him not listening to her in spite of him not knowing how much damage she could inflict on him by losing control. Hawke is not who he is because of he goes around apologising although in that instance he should have in my opinion. He mounted a full scale effort to get her and even when he was doubtful whether she was ready for him he decided that she would just have to deal with it. That is him in a nutshell and face it guys do you want his character to be changed so that it satisfies our sense of fairness in his treatment of Sienna. He made up for it the way he chased her around. Every one of their encounters with the exception of her going to his room for that night of strip poker was initiated by him . He chased her around like a dog with its tongue hanging out and that was really sweet.

The battle was pretty sad from its lack of details I agree but I think she ran out of pages.

The Tai and Evie romance is so cute. I loved Kit and Sienna's friendship, he's going to make someone an awesome mate.

kitarad, I think you make some good points. Hawke really has it in his head that he can't give her the mating bond and that Sienna deserves better but he wants her soooo much so that's why he acts the way he does in the first part of the book (go away, come here, go away, don't touch that baby cat, but go away, but come here lol). I think he definitely makes up for the first 150 pages in the next 250 pages where he pursues her like you said, like a dog with it's tongue hanging out. He was so worried about her when she went on that op with Judd too.

So, do you think when he first decides that they are going to have a relationship (after he realizes that he can't sleep with Rosalie) that he's planning on it being temporary, just to get her out of his system? Judd warns him that Sienna intellectually understands that sex doesn't necessarily result in a commitment but that she loves completely and fiercely and to be ready for that. But I couldn't quite figure out what Hawke's ultimate intentions were the first time I read through the book. I'm doing a re-read now.

Sonia, I like what you wrote there.. Hm, I think I have to overthink my thoughts now. Idk, I will never love Hawke, but maybe there is something that'll make me less angry ;D

And you're very welcome! :>

tabitha, I'd soooo love to see more of them.. *sigh*

I was curious about Hawke's background from way back Slave to Sensation. I wanted to know why he was such an a**hole a lot of times. I guess becoming an orphan and ascending to alpha of the pack at the same at the age of 15 can do that to a guy.

Still and all, if a woman had done what he did at the beginning (go away, no one else can have you, go away, watch with me with someone else better suited than you) she'd be called some unpleasant names. But Hawke gets away with the explanation of "I'm protecting my heart". And that's a boo to him.

Lisa Jo wrote:I think I know why so many of us thought the battle scene was kind of lame. We are so used to hearing about awful past tragedy as almost a way of life.
Things they couldn't stop. SnowDancer wasn't weak yet Psy that aren't council were able to sneak in and compromise the pack were able to almost destroy it. Granted they were sneaky and that the situation put SD on high alert, but the fact that a whole army didn't kill one person? Really? It wouldn't have even had to be someone we knew or even had a name. Just say they had losses - 20 people died. Civilian deaths in San Fransico or something!
She's built tragedy into the series and it wouldn't be unexpected for any of us to see someone die. I don't want death, but it seems unrealistic to have no one die. We've come to expect and accecpt it. I'll still keep reading - don't get me wrong. I am in love with the wolves (I used to "own" a wolf hybrid) and I really want to hear more about Alexi "the Russian Bridegroom!"

I agree. This is what I meant earlier when I said this story had a lot of "show" but not a lot of "tell." I forgot about this aspect. Seriously, how can one have a major battle with not even a single death? With all the psy telephatic powers and weapon? Someone else here recently said that she needs to believe the story can happen, even in a sci-fiction/romance setting. I'm like that way too. So yes, I can buy into the world of psy powers and shape shifters and mating bonds as they have been painted and demonstrated through action. But to have a major battle without loss? And to have NO ONE in the pack remark upon Sienna's super powers after the first time they saw it displayed? These points (and a few minor other issues) continue to leave me unsatisfied.

Scotch wrote:

Lisa Jo wrote:I think I know why so many of us thought the battle scene was kind of lame. We are so used to hearing about awful past tragedy as almost a way of life.
Things they couldn't stop. SnowDancer wasn't weak yet Psy that aren't council were able to sneak in and compromise the pack were able to almost destroy it. Granted they were sneaky and that the situation put SD on high alert, but the fact that a whole army didn't kill one person? Really? It wouldn't have even had to be someone we knew or even had a name. Just say they had losses - 20 people died. Civilian deaths in San Fransico or something!
She's built tragedy into the series and it wouldn't be unexpected for any of us to see someone die. I don't want death, but it seems unrealistic to have no one die. We've come to expect and accecpt it. I'll still keep reading - don't get me wrong. I am in love with the wolves (I used to "own" a wolf hybrid) and I really want to hear more about Alexi "the Russian Bridegroom!"

I agree. This is what I meant earlier when I said this story had a lot of "show" but not a lot of "tell." I forgot about this aspect. Seriously, how can one have a major battle with not even a single death? With all the psy telephatic powers and weapon? Someone else here recently said that she needs to believe the story can happen, even in a sci-fiction/romance setting. I'm like that way too. So yes, I can buy into the world of psy powers and shape shifters and mating bonds as they have been painted and demonstrated through action. But to have a major battle without loss? And to have NO ONE in the pack remark upon Sienna's super powers after the first time they saw it displayed? These points (and a few minor other issues) continue to leave me unsatisfied.

I think I agree with you somewhat about the battle scene. Someone should have died. Maybe Tai or Maria or even Elias back in the earlier attack. These are characters I like but don't have a big emotional attachment to. It wouldn't have been like killing off Judd Lauren (GASP, perish the thought) but would have given the scene more emotional resonance.

I also would have liked to have seen the pack's reaction to Sienna's power. I mean, seriously, the girl is POWERFUL. She saved the pack. That should have been worth a few admiring glances. I guess she was included in the lieutenant's meeting with Hawke at the end but I thought that was maybe because she is now part of the alpha couple. I'm guessing word count and page limitations probably kept Nalini from adding more about this.