Kiss of Snow: It's out. First impressions?

Elaine wrote: Still and all, if a woman had done what he did at the beginning (go away, no one else can have you, go away, watch with me with someone else better suited than you) she'd be called some unpleasant names. But Hawke gets away with the explanation of "I'm protecting my heart". And that's a boo to him.

I absolutely agree! She would have been drawn and quartered, tarred and feathered, and kicked to the curb. (I haven't had my coffee yet, so I'm rather violent LOL).

I just don't buy that he was forced into a relationship with her despite believing they were unsuitable. It wasn't like in a historical where typically the female HAS to marry or starve. Hawke's life wasn't on the line. The survival of his pack wasn't on the line. Just his blue balls. He simply didn't like that he wanted her so much and that no one else would suffice. Really, I would have been happy with a simple 'I effed up and now I'm going to make it up to her'.

Lulu, I totally agree that we needed more of a reaction to the aftermath. I don't know about the word count issue but there were parts the could have been totally cut out, instead. Anyone remember the 'Sienna has the afternoon off but then gets called in to the power plant issue'? I thought...ohhh, something is going to happen. Then she's back and I'm like...Am I missing pages? What was that all about?

I absolutely agree that there needed to deaths within the packs. (I need more coffee in order to stem this bloodthirstiness LOL)

Granted his refusal to let her go and still not want her for himself initially was extremely selfish and very dog in the mangerlike. That behaviour while certainly not worthy of a person who truly should try to rise above himself and let it go but his sexual frustration was affecting the pack too. He is not just anyone who can ignore his sexual situation and hence the Rosa solution.Yes if I was in Sienna's situation I would be very upset too but every action after he claimed skin privileges were completely focussed on Sienna and not just to get her to bed but to get her to play and talk and share things with him.

He also thought he could just get a relationship with her and not share himself and if not for Sienna calling him on that bullshit he might have given her only part of himself while asking her for everything which he admits to trying to do at the end too. This was another very selfish attitude on his part hoping to hide his feelings and pains while making her share everything. He is flawed but I suppose being alpha at 15 has a lot to do with it coupled with what he lost becoming one, not that Sienna's life was any less horrific but looking at it from his point of view he was only comfortable with a relationship on his terms.

I cannot understand how a thought and not his actions after he claimed her would be the only way to satisfy you that he felt remorse. Doesn't his actions prove it ?


"So, do you think when he first decides that they are going to have a relationship (after he realizes that he can't sleep with Rosalie) that he's planning on it being temporary, just to get her out of his system? "

No lulu I do not for a second believe he would be such a heel to do that. He was going to have a relationship with her but one on his terms where he hides things and not truly share his life.You notice too he gives her an ultimatum. He was trying to manouver her to accept less and be satisfied with it when he discussed their relationship and where she hoped it would go. If at that point she had challenged him on the mate bond thing he might have actually dropped her which again is bad but he is not perfect . It was only later when he was already too in love with her that he had to give her more or would have risked losing her that made him share the circumstances of his father's death. Hawke is not an ideal mate ,he is selfish,arrogant and very cowardly about getting in too deep and it was only the terrible certainty that Sienna would die that finally pushed him. There would be no mating bond if she had not tried to kill herself and of that point I am fairly certain he was absolutely forced to do it. His explanation of not wanting to lose too much by giving her the bond before was his rationalisation but it was only her certain death that pushed him and not some realisation on his part that they should mate. He was very cowardly and would probably never have given her that if circumstances were different. Yes that sucks too I admit to thinking that Sienna never merited a bond as a right but as a final solution.

kitarad wrote:
I cannot understand how a thought and not his actions after he claimed her would be the only way to satisfy you that he felt remorse. Doesn't his actions prove it ?

I KNOW! I totally know what you're saying. I just can't explain it. LOL. He did do totally awesome hero stuff and he does take that extra step by apologizing to her in the end (Lulu totally reminded me of that and once I reread it - totally swoon worthy). For me, those actions taken outside the scope of the story are fraking amazing. But within the overall story, I just have this barrier, this taint that I just can't get over. Maybe I just need another complete read thru and I'll be more forgiving. Maybe I'll be able to see the remorse in his actions instead of the unapologetic selfishness that I currently see. IDK Sometimes rereads cause more problems, I still can't reread Mine to Possess cuz I can't stand Tally.

You know the power in this relationship was mostly in his hands and even towards the end he cowardly considers giving her less in his answer but because he had the chance to be like Sascha and Lucas that he wanted the true alpha pair that he capitulates.

He was willing to die with her and even for his pack he could not kill her and in that you see how much he loves her but he was still so afraid of telling her the truth . Yup Hawke is a coward alright.

CK, I am re-reading it now and I am liking it even more the second time though I've still got about 100 pages to go. I may have to read it a third time after this. (FYI - Mine to Possess is my least favorite book because of Tally so we may have similar sensibilties.)

Hawke was damaged, really damaged by Rissa's death, his father's betrayal, his mother's death, all the other deaths in the pack and having to take over as alpha at 15. He wanted never to risk his heart in that way ever again so he built a shell around it. He could love his pack as a whole and care about the individuals within it, but he didn't want to ever love or rely on any one person with his entire being ever again. So, he kept everyone at a distance. That's the emotional baggage he was dealing with through the book. So, that's why I'm OK with how the story unfolded since he did work through it and realize he couldn't, and wouldn't, live without Sienna.

kitarad wrote:"So, do you think when he first decides that they are going to have a relationship (after he realizes that he can't sleep with Rosalie) that he's planning on it being temporary, just to get her out of his system? "

No lulu I do not for a second believe he would be such a heel to do that. He was going to have a relationship with her but one on his terms where he hides things and not truly share his life.You notice too he gives her an ultimatum. He was trying to manouver her to accept less and be satisfied with it when he discussed their relationship and where she hoped it would go. If at that point she had challenged him on the mate bond thing he might have actually dropped her which again is bad but he is not perfect . It was only later when he was already too in love with her that he had to give her more or would have risked losing her that made him share the circumstances of his father's death. Hawke is not an ideal mate ,he is selfish,arrogant and very cowardly about getting in too deep and it was only the terrible certainty that Sienna would die that finally pushed him. There would be no mating bond if she had not tried to kill herself and of that point I am fairly certain he was absolutely forced to do it. His explanation of not wanting to lose too much by giving her the bond before was his rationalisation but it was only her certain death that pushed him and not some realisation on his part that they should mate. He was very cowardly and would probably never have given her that if circumstances were different. Yes that sucks too I admit to thinking that Sienna never merited a bond as a right but as a final solution.

I pretty much agree with you having read throught those parts a 2nd time. Once he started the relationship with Sienna, he intended to keep her but it was going to be a relationship, as you said, on his terms. Sienna calls him on it and challenges him over and over which is another reason for his attraction to her. He respects her strength in standing up to him.

The fact that the mating bond was given at a point of near death is OK with me. Hawke was so closed off to the possibility that only something like that was going to wake him the hell up. (Haven't we also seen other mating bonds given at a point of near death - can't quite recall but maybe Dorian & Ashaya and Drew & Indigo?)

kitarad wrote:Yup Hawke is a coward alright.

Maybe that's my ultimate problem. LOL. You said how he was forced into the mating bond when she tried to become the human torch and had that not been that, it wouldn't have happened. Pure speculation now, of course, but do you think that had no mating bond happened, it would have eventually poisoned their relationship? The way of Adria & her partner (we now know how that is going to end up LOL) and wasn't it Nate's parents who mated young and his mother(?) grew resentful later? That withholding a part of yourself would poison even a mating bond, much less any other 'regular' relationship?

Lulu, glad to hear it that you are liking it better the 2nd time around. I'll definitely give it a try later. I'm probably going to read CbI and BbF first though, LOL. I know that right now I'm reading every book very critically, almost in a beta reader/editorial sense, because that's my MO right now. I think once I'm out of this mindset, I'll probably be more forgiving.

I actually liked Tally because she didn't put up with Clay's shit. There were things about her I didn't like, but I laughed at the scenes in that book. I actually don't like Drew and Indigo - I like Hawke, but Sienna bugs me a bit. I should re-read it too I suppose.

I am just re-reading it for the second time and I am still loving Hawke, I'm just at the bit where he gives her the penguin and my heart's melting. I think overall he is just over protective, I don't think he's a coward at all, I think his fear is for her, for hurting her, not for him. I also think that he hasn't changed so much but Sienna has and he is not coping with that change well.

catikins wrote:I am just re-reading it for the second time and I am still loving Hawke, I'm just at the bit where he gives her the penguin and my heart's melting. I think overall he is just over protective, I don't think he's a coward at all, I think his fear is for her, for hurting her, not for him. I also think that he hasn't changed so much but Sienna has and he is not coping with that change well.

Definitely a second read through is a good idea. I really liked it the first time but I'm liking it even more the second go round.

I just got back in after going for a nice run (it's my day off!) and while I was out I started thinking about the different creative choices NS had for the book. If Hawke hadn't been the one with the obstacle to overcome (his past and all of the emotional baggage), then the book would have likely been too much like several of the earlier ones. Smooth, sexy, confident changeling seduces icy, or formerly icy, Psy who needs to learn to control her powers. It's been done already in the series (Luc/Sascha, Vaughn/Faith, Brenna/Judd, Dorian/Ashaya, even Dev/Katja to some extent though he's human).

So she went with a different storyline, the one in which it is the changeling that has built such thick walls around his heart and mind, that he won't even consider the possibility that he could mate and that the bond was never completed with the little girl who died so long ago. This time it's the Psy Sienna, while inexperienced with relationships and sex, who knows she wants Hawke and pursues him with single minded purpose. I think it was the right choice for the series.

I'm doing a re-read though I keep having to put it down and pick it up.

Is there a continuity error on and around page 291? Sienna says there is a "fool proof way to figure out if my theory about their plan is correct" and at the very end Hawke says "do it". Do what? What's the fool proof way? After an unrelated Nikita chapter, the next chapter is the Psy ambush they are observing from the top of the ridge. Am I not understanding something here?

Lulu2011 wrote:I'm doing a re-read though I keep having to put it down and pick it up.

Is there a continuity error on and around page 291? Sienna says there is a "fool proof way to figure out if my theory about their plan is correct" and at the very end Hawke says "do it". Do what? What's the fool proof way? After an unrelated Nikita chapter, the next chapter is the Psy ambush they are observing from the top of the ridge. Am I not understanding something here?

I'm not there yet on my second read but I remember that it did add up and make sense, I think in the meeting of all the sentinals they agree to do something that confirms Mings strategy. I will confirm when I get there.

Lulu2011 wrote:
Is there a continuity error on and around page 291? Sienna says there is a "fool proof way to figure out if my theory about their plan is correct" and at the very end Hawke says "do it". Do what? What's the fool proof way? After an unrelated Nikita chapter, the next chapter is the Psy ambush they are observing from the top of the ridge. Am I not understanding something here?

I am not that far in my reread but if I remember correctly this was when Sienna thought PurePsy were trying to make SD move the pups so they could attack the children. If so, SD made a fake movement of the children and waited for the PurePsy and ambushed the Pure Psy attackers.

Thanks, ladies! I think that's right. I have had to put it down several times today so it's been a little confusing. I may have to re-read that whole part again.

Lisa Jo wrote:I get the feeling if the mating bond doesn't snap into place you could find another potential mate. It does account for those whose poetential mates die young, like Hawke, or are with another, like Riaz. Then you wouldn't have to worry about not having babies around. Like it's been stated several times they don't have babies easily - so this would prevent "good" genes from going to waste.

I too think Alice will show up again - I'm not too thrilled about that. It just seems a little contrived, but I guess and hope that she'll make it work!

I kind of think that Vasic is the Ghost. Only because he said he's beyond help (after stopping Jax), but he's still involved with the rebellion and seems to be "in charge" of the arrows from what the one scene in the desert shows. I really hope we see more of him and Aden - especially since Aden was trained by Walker. That seems to be a huge hint!

Hi, friends.
I know, I'm not supposed to be here *pretendig to be air*, because I havent read the book yet.
But, I dont think Vasic is the Ghost.
Somewhere, in a book Faith was talking to the dark nethead (or whatever he is called) again. She knows who the Ghost is because it was mentioned. And it was mentioned that if the most public and best knows rebell of the psy-net ever let the silence fall, the Psynet would go under.
So, Kaleb is a councelor. That means he has at least to be "a little" famous in the world (like PR-smiling and being charming).
Vasic is an arrow. Something that not "exsists" for normal Psy/humans/changelings. He can't be the ghost then.
Maybe Kaleb has some exta-special powers we don't know anything yet.
And really, I don't want Alice somwhere than her fridge. In Germany we call something like her "aufgewärmte Leiche". Just imagine her wearing all 70 clothes or even worse clothes from the 80s.

I may be the only one, but if you ask me what I liked about this book... I have to say...nothing.
Not the romance, not the characters, not the action and neither the war background... Even the Nalini's way of writing was off...
She was too reiterative about her being an X and him being an alpha, Judd being an arrow, Walter being a teacher etc etc and this kind of comments were put in the wrong places like in the middle of conversations, making the pace of the book slow in general.
The conversations between S and H were kind of unrealistic (specially H reactions and answers ) and a litlle empty... is was not the Hawke we have seen up till now.
I didn't get why from a moment to another he decide to chase her or he decide to have sex with her etc etc . Even one o two of their encounters was not described, they were cut and then we were told S and H thoughs about what happened the night before.
I don't know...many things felt forced in some way, the reactions of many characters, like Judd for example.
I didn't feel my heart beat faster in any part of the book, not even in the sex parts... when their moment arrive I was just like...ble...they did it, ok, lets go on reading to see if this gets any better... if I feel they LOVE each other.
The X part .... "60% to ignition" "90% to ignition" that was too much jajaja and she was leaving and then no, and then yes and then she come back.
Finally, Nalini didn't use the perfect obstacle for them to be together: the lack in control she used to have when she was near him, that would have been great as a way to delay their relationship...
It was totally unrealistic and without excitement... a dissapointment. At least for me.

Rukita, I don't think you're the only one. The things you've mentioned.. I understand it. I didn't feel their love either and I didn't FEEL why he changed his behaviour. Rationally I get it. He noticed that he couldn't not court her. Bla. But mhe.

But I still liked it. I just had to ignore/avoid thinking about certain parts. xD

I think that scene with Rosalie is the scene where Hawke fully realizes what's really going on and his behavior towards Sienna changes from that point. He realizes no other woman can replace Sienna, that the wolf doesn't want to touch anyone but Sienna. To me, that's the scene where he makes the decision to go after her and changes his behavior.

This is a different book than the earlier ones where the changeling (Luc, Vaughn, Dorian, Clay, Riley, Emmett, Zach, etc.) has that "ah, she's my mate" moment maybe 1/3 of the way through and then sets about to pursue the woman with single minded purpose. Hawke has made up his stubborn mind that he's always going to be alone and never going to let anyone get close to him. So, it's his resistance that has to be broken down over time. As a result, his feelings are more muddled earlier on and not as clear cut as the males from the earlier books so it maybe isn't quite as satisfying to some readers.

I'd go with that Lulu. The Dark River guys recognised their mates when they met them, it was the women who needed persuading to accept the mating bond; and again as someone else has said usually when one of the pair was in mortal danger. If Hawke had mated Rissa had she lived, he'd have been a different Alpha, Snow Dancer would have been a different pack and Sienna's HEA would be with someone else and we'd all be going on about that because we probably wouldn't like him. If you alter the past by one little detail, it changes the present completely. (Heh, I just watched Source Code with Jake Gyllenhall)

I think Hawke showed he was sorry with the small gifts, his time (we're talking very busy Alpha) and his protectiveness toward her. Yes he was all sorts of mixed up with his "come and go" attitude but once he settled on her (albeit without the mating bond in his mind) he committed and didn't look back. He gave her time to get used to him hence the constant interruptions just when they were about to...whatever. It's true though, it could've been extended; some parts felt a bit rushed and the war that wasn't really, cause who can beat a napalm bomb and no one on the good team dies?

As for Alice, is it a bit creepy to think that maybe Noor and Keenan are going to have a hand in that little situation? Ick.

Bluebourbon, I think Faith says something about the future in Visions of Heat. . . how it is fluid and ever changing and that's why it is so difficult to be accurate about predicting it. So, it makes sense to me that Rissa would have been Hawke's maternal submissive mate in a different future. The one where Snowdancer had never been targeted by the Psy for their experiements, where they hadn't turned on one another because of those experiements and where all those SnowDancer deaths hadn't occurred. Garrick might still be alpha and Hawke just one of his lieutenants.

But, that isn't what happened, it changed the Pack and Hawke completely. Sienna is the perfect mate for the man Hawke became.

And, Alice, yeah, that situation is all kinds of creepy.

catikins wrote:That's an interesting thought mj, what is her role going to be as a soldier now - is she still going to be a soldier??

This was a question that bothered me before KoS. After finishing the book, while I'm not totally okay with Sienna's novice soldier status and the lack of recognition for her work on the battlefield, I'm relieved that she wasn't magically elevated to something that would be unbelievable just because it was the end of the book. Her status and role will continue to evolve in the next books, if we're lucky to get glimpses of Snowdancer (and thank God we do with Riaz & Adria's story). Ultimately, with a few more years under her belt, I believe she'll make lieutenant. In PoP, I recall Indigo thinking that the small group of novices she was putting through the runs was the best of the best and that within the group, there would be a lieutenant or two. Riaz then points out Sienna in the group and comments that she was very, very good. So our girl will be okay: mate, sounding board and equal (outside the heirarchy) to the alpha, all-around, well-honed weapon to ash the enemy, and a lieutenant military strategist.

I think it's likely Sienna will be included in those lieutenant meetings as she is the alpha's mate. Sascha did with the sentinels didn't she? And, she's an empath with no military experience or training while Sienna had tons plus her X abilities (do you want your enemy fried or extra crispy, Hawke?).

I really liked Hawke and Sienna. Along with the rest of you I agree this book could have used a few hundred pages more, but with what Nalini was given I think she did a wonderful job with this book (could of used a little more Luke, Sascha, and Baby interaction - and maybe just a little more Sienna and Kit). I do like that she put a different spin on this book than the others. I cannot wait to read Riaz and Adria's book because hopefully we will get some more glimpses of how the Hawke and Sienna situation is going. Does she have any short stories of the changelings coming out before that book? Cause I don't want to wait another year for another story. It was awful waiting for this one!! Also wanted to say I just started reading Ilona Andrews Magic series and I love it

She is going to write 2 novellas next year to be published the following year in 2013. Riaz and Adria's book is going to be out in June 2012. So, it's a long wait . . . (goes to mope in corner).

Okay, so I really finished the book as opposed to thinking I finished the book. Although it requires another re-read or two, I've had some time to let the story sink in. I realized I truly, deeply like the book. It packs a good emotional punch. But then, I'm partial because Hawke and Sienna have been my favorite throughout the series. I do hope we continue to get updates in the next 3-4 psy/changeling books. I mean, Nalini must because the ending, albeit happy and sigh-worthy, was abrupt. I need more Hawke and Sienna!