Tangle of Need: Riaz & Adria's Story- Coming June 2012

I know some (coughPatriciacough) have commented on occasion that these wolf and cat changelings are at times awfully perfect. I don't mind it as it is nice to have a series where the Heroes can be relied upon to act, well, heroic.

But, I think having Adria be all "oh, I'm fine with it, we're wolves, we need touch/sex, no problem you confusing me with Indigo, no problem you having been her ex-lover even though she's my niece" is a little too perfectly perfect for me. The cats and wolves do get jealous (Drew over Indigo when thinking she and Riaz might be starting up again or Tammy over Nate with his ex Juanita, etc.) so I expect Adria to have an issue with this and hope hope hope Nalini will address it straight on.

Personally, it's not the changelings I have issues on, it's the goody goody Sascha, that's becoming 'too kind' for me. Ok, shutting up now about Sascha. lol

While they do get jealous, I see it more of directed towards a potential rival, rather than previous lovers. And in Tammy's case, as I already mentioned, those women had been more intimate with Nate than she had ever been at that time...so it isn't quite the same.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is...changelings do things differently. lol.
I mean, while touch is essential, they don't allow just anyone to have skin privileges, so more likely upon adulthood, they end up in bed with their packmates. And because they do get in bed with no intention of commitment/permanence, I imagine bed hopping is common, but more 'respected and cherished' than simply being promiscuous. *wince*
If they're going to be jealous of their mate's previous lovers, the pack will implode. I mean, after finding their mate, what is the chance of them meeting old lovers among packmates everyday? Very high, I would say. Which is why I think part of the reason why the mating bond is highly sought after is because mated pairs never cheat on each other. It sort of 'soothes/assures' something in them. While lovers may one day leave/find another lover/find their mate, mating is for life.

Adria having insecurities, that I can very well see. But Adria jealous? Not so much.^^

If they're going to be jealous of their mate's previous lovers, the pack will implode.

There needs to be a PNR parody where this happens. PNR shapeshifters are such whores, lol.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is...changelings do things differently. lol.
I mean, while touch is essential, they don't allow just anyone to have skin privileges, so more likely upon adulthood, they end up in bed with their packmates. And because they do get in bed with no intention of commitment/permanence, I imagine bed hopping is common, but more 'respected and cherished' than simply being promiscuous. *wince*

I think this is probably true even if I think it is far-fetched. Not your explanation Yurice, but the concept NS is implying - sanctioned promiscuity due to genetics.

But what I've really been trying to say is that I want NS to acknowledge the awkwardness of the Indigo/Riaz/Adria triangle. I want the ick-factor to be dealt with. I'm worried it will be glossed over and I'll be left at the end of the book without the characters even noticing that Riaz had sex with his mate's niece before he got serious with his mate.

Nina wrote:

I think this is probably true even if I think it is far-fetched. Not your explanation Yurice, but the concept NS is implying - sanctioned promiscuity due to genetics.

But what I've really been trying to say is that I want NS to acknowledge the awkwardness of the Indigo/Riaz/Adria triangle. I want the ick-factor to be dealt with. I'm worried it will be glossed over and I'll be left at the end of the book without the characters even noticing that Riaz had sex with his mate's niece before he got serious with his mate.

I personally don't know what to make of it, the 'sanctioned promiscuity' as you have described it.^^; I don't think that was NS's intention either, but there it is.
If not for this conversation, I wouldn't even think about it, because the changeling heroines like Indigo and Mercy has been celibate for months before their main story began, so was Hawke and Riley? Drew wasn't touch hungry though, Indigo mentioned a 'harem' lol... but otherwise I didn't really get any 'promiscuous' vibe.^^;

Reflecting on Drew reminded me that he did get jealous of that guy Indigo had her first time with, which could mean something else as it's her virginity, who knows if they even value that but ehhh...

What I ought to say then, is that though the changelings do feel jealous about previous lovers, they will not let it affect their current relationship. :3

I can understand not wanting the whole triangle thing to be glossed over and the ick factor not dealt with. But at the same time, I may find it more harder to swallow if Riaz does discuss Indigo with Adria, or Indigo talks about Riaz with her aunt. I think I would prefer the 'brush under the rug' treatment than be subjected to such awkwardness. I was cringing when Drew and Indigo talked about their first times so casually, I mean, even Hawke didn't want to discuss Rosalie with Sienna. I would never, ever discuss a previous lover with the current one...it's just so awkward! T_T

Yurice wrote:
I guess, what I'm trying to say is...changelings do things differently. lol.
I mean, while touch is essential, they don't allow just anyone to have skin privileges, so more likely upon adulthood, they end up in bed with their packmates. And because they do get in bed with no intention of commitment/permanence, I imagine bed hopping is common, but more 'respected and cherished' than simply being promiscuous. *wince*
If they're going to be jealous of their mate's previous lovers, the pack will implode. I mean, after finding their mate, what is the chance of them meeting old lovers among packmates everyday? Very high, I would say. Which is why I think part of the reason why the mating bond is highly sought after is because mated pairs never cheat on each other. It sort of 'soothes/assures' something in them. While lovers may one day leave/find another lover/find their mate, mating is for life.
Adria having insecurities, that I can very well see. But Adria jealous? Not so much.^^

Yurice, I think you make some good points. I remember one passage in PoP where Indigo was contemplating the habits of the younger wolves. Bed hopping among the younger ones was fairly common but one particular wolf (can't remember her name) had taken it so far that Indigo thought her promiscuous. So, the wolves do have standards regarding that behavior. Drew also did feel jealous of her previous lovers but also realized that they need touch so much, he wouldn't want her to hurt herself by denying their essential nature (can't quite remember how he phrased it).

So, in general, I think they are careful of who they give those kind of skin privleges to and who their lovers are. They are probably more careful as they get older and they move around finding their place in the pack hierarchy. Indigo never slept with Riley for instance. He described them as friends and "colleagues" who never were lovers when Mercy asked him.

The pack is a pretty closed society so, yes, it would be certain that you would run into old lovers though I'm also guessing that over time, people move in and out of the den, find their mates, move to other parts of SD territory, that sort of thing, so that after a few years, it would become less and less likely.

My main issue with the whole Indigo/Riaz/Adria thing is the family factor that was introduced. You are stuck with your family for eternity. Drew would likely not just blow off Indigo having slept with Riley for instance. Riley wouldn't be able to blow off Mercy having slept with Drew. It would be too awkward and, well, icky.

So, like Nina, I'd like her to address this head on in some way and not sweep it under the rug though I don't know how she's going to do that and give readers a sense of comfort with it. Though, she's the one who introduced it into the series so maybe she's got an angle we haven't thought about.

I agree, what you said makes more sense than my original conclusions. :3
They roam around, and not just the lone wolf types, it was mentioned that the foster family that took in the Kincaid siblings were roaming when Brenna was abducted. And I read somewhere in KoS that the cats roam more than the wolves. :3

As for the A/R/I thingy...
I can't recall for all the pairings in the books, but at least in some, there are some obstacles that 'appear' insurmountable.
For Hawke and Sienna, it was the 'impossibility' of a mating bond, aside from their age gap. Riley and Mercy were afraid their mating would break the blood bond with his/her alpha. (I have to say that the way the mating bond took place for Riley and Mercy was my favorite. le sigh.)
Perhaps the family relationship was factored in in Adria's story as part of the 'obstacle' she has to overcome, that and the not so pleasant relationship she had been subjected to for nearly a decade.
If so, somehow, someway the awkwardness will be dealt with, and hopefully in a way that would soothe the readers a little.^^

One thing I know for sure, I don't want Indigo to be Riaz and Adria's relationship counselor. lol

Yurice wrote:I agree, what you said makes more sense than my original conclusions. :3
They roam around, and not just the lone wolf types, it was mentioned that the foster family that took in the Kincaid siblings were roaming when Brenna was abducted. And I read somewhere in KoS that the cats roam more than the wolves. :3

As for the A/R/I thingy...
I can't recall for all the pairings in the books, but at least in some, there are some obstacles that 'appear' insurmountable.
For Hawke and Sienna, it was the 'impossibility' of a mating bond, aside from their age gap. Riley and Mercy were afraid their mating would break the blood bond with his/her alpha. (I have to say that the way the mating bond took place for Riley and Mercy was my favorite. le sigh.)
Perhaps the family relationship was factored in in Adria's story as part of the 'obstacle' she has to overcome, that and the not so pleasant relationship she had been subjected to for nearly a decade.
If so, somehow, someway the awkwardness will be dealt with, and hopefully in a way that would soothe the readers a little.^^

One thing I know for sure, I don't want Indigo to be Riaz and Adria's relationship counselor. lol

EXACTLY! That's one reason it is so awkward and icky. So far, it has been Indigo that has been Riaz' friend/confidant since he's been back and she is also close with Adria being her niece and all. She's the most likely relationship counselor for both of them but I want her to stay far awaaaaay from this! And I also agree that it could be that Nalini is setting up the family relationship between Adria/Indigo as a sticking point in Adria's relationship with Riaz and one of the obstacles to overcome in the story.

Yurice wrote:One thing I know for sure, I don't want Indigo to be Riaz and Adria's relationship counselor. lol

^This! :'D

One thing I know for sure, I don't want Indigo to be Riaz and Adria's relationship counselor. lol

Nalini is setting up the family relationship between Adria/Indigo as a sticking point in Adria's relationship with Riaz and one of the obstacles to overcome in the story.

Yes. These two sum up what I have issues with.

I highlighted that bit up there b/c this is what gets me: I really don't want Indigo to be sticking her nose in Adria/Riaz due to the sisterly-ick factor but it just looks inevitable the way she's setting it up. It has me wary of ToN.

Among other things...

There are scenes in PoP that can still make me squirm, I believe I'll survive ToN. ^^;
I was never comfortable seeing Drew and Riaz in the same scene, I mean yes, Drew makes light of the situation i.e killing Riaz when Indigo's not looking...but still! I don't know how Drew handles it, if it were me, I'd be pulverizing Riaz all the time - in my mind at least.

There's just something uncomfortable having lover and old lover in the same room, you know? Even if they're behaving, all civilized.
I mean, Mercy met that Hamilton? guy again, but she didn't introduce him to Riley. Nor did Rosalie advise Sienna how to handle Hawke. xD
The readers weren't subjected to such 'interactions' until PoP, though Drew and Riaz never actually talked with each other in the book, (did they?) But given the relationship with Indigo and Adria, it is inevitable. I'd be roasting over a low fire for sure when reading through such scenes.

I realize now that Indigo poses more of a threat than Martin, although she's mated, just because of her history with Riaz...and they look so much alike, both dominant women, Adria has to make Riaz see her for who she is, not shadowed by Indigo.

Nalini awakened a masochistic streak in me. Usually, I avoid books that make me uncomfortable, but now, I find myself actually eager.
It's like those gore movies that horrifies people, but they keep coming back. Maybe I'll be singing a different tune when the book is actually here, but right now, there's a part of me that doesn't mind being uncomfortable, being tortured a little.

And, there are things I'm looking forward to in ToN. More Hawke and Sienna <33 and perhaps a more in-depth Tai and Evie too, being Adria's niece. Then there's the Ghost and Arrows, means more yummy Judd to drool on. *wipes face*

I'm reading for Arrows, Kaleb, aannndddd...

Walker.

Didn't see that last one coming, did y'all?

Didn't see that last one coming, did y'all?

Noooo, not at all

Nina wrote:Didn't see that last one coming, did y'all?

Nope! ;p

So . . . I sent Nalini an email. I figured, why not? I told her my general feelings about the whole Riaz/Adria/Indigo thing (in a nice way) and asked her if she planned to address this or make it an issue in the book. She is always so nice about answering her email and she responded to my questions about KoS last summer so I'm hopeful she will answer this one. I'll let you all know what she says!

Lulu2011 wrote:So . . . I sent Nalini an email. I figured, why not? I told her my general feelings about the whole Riaz/Adria/Indigo thing (in a nice way) and asked her if she planned to address this or make it an issue in the book. She is always so nice about answering her email and she responded to my questions about KoS last summer so I'm hopeful she will answer this one. I'll let you all know what she says!

YAY! I thought about writing her, too, but decided against it, because I'm horrible at expressing my opinion or asking stuff. xD *curious already*

Patricia, I think you express yourself extremely well so you should ask away. Writers need to hear from their readers. They need to know what we're thinking. If I were a writer, I'd rather know than be shocked by negative reviews and comments when the book comes out. At least, Nalini can't say she wasn't given a heads-up that this is an issue for some readers.

It did take Nalini several weeks to get back to me about KoS so it could take awhile for her to respond, maybe not quite as long as she isn't about to embark on a press tour to promote KoS like last summer.

Here is the back cover blurb for Tangle of Need, straight from Nalini's newsletter that I got about 20 minutes ago:

Adria, wolf changeling and resilient soldier, has made a break with the past—one as unpredictable in love as it was in war. Now comes a new territory, and a devastating new complication: Riaz, a SnowDancer lieutenant already sworn to a desperate woman who belongs to another.

For Riaz, the primal attraction he feels for Adria is a staggering betrayal. For Adria, his dangerous lone-wolf appeal is beyond sexual. It consumes her. It terrifies her. It threatens to undermine everything she has built of her new life. But fighting their wild compulsion toward one another proves a losing battle.

Their coming together is an inferno…and a melding of two wounded souls who promise each other no commitment, no ties, no bonds. Only pleasure. Too late, they realize that they have more to lose than they ever imagined. Drawn into a cataclysmic Psy war that may alter the fate of the world itself, they must make a decision that might just break them both.

So...this confirms that the mate Riaz mentioned in PoP is not Adria.

And perhaps there are more than one potential mates. I'm not sure I can reconcile with that...but meh. *cries in a corner*

Now, if theirs was a purely physical relationship, what kind of decision can possibly break them?

Looks like there won't be time for a honeymoon for Hawke and Sienna, what with the Psy war and all. I wonder if Henry is dead?

For Riaz, the primal attraction he feels for Adria is a staggering betrayal.

Damn you, fate, for giving me a mate when I thought the one who was my mate was fureva lost to me! You are so cruel for giving me a chance to be happy! Screw you! I hate you! Tally, where the fuck are you, I need your black nail polish!? And who took my Papa Roach USB-Stick??

Indeed, life betrayed him. What a mad world.

LOL!

Well, how about this: Riaz made a mistake, wanted something so badly he saw it where it didn't exist ? I don't think we've had anything like that yet.

Oops, I thought you were my mate but we didn't really get to know each other, since you were married and all . . . that might fly in this case, especially if Nalini can really delve into the mating rules (about what can and can't happen).

I wonder why it's betrayal for him? I mean, he was willing to go for another shot with Indigo? Silly Riaz!

I won't mind if this is a pairing that doesn't involve a mating bond. Just to show that the people in Nalini's world can be happy even if they're not mates. They just have to be committed to each other.

Well, Max and Sophia weren't mates. She was Psy and he was 100% primitive human and they were just in love and committed to one another.

I think Riaz knew it wasn't really right or real with Indigo and wasn't going to lead to a mating, so it was kind of a half-hearted run at her back in PoP. With Adria, I'm expecting that he feels much more. At least he should! Who wants to be second choice or the girl he settled for?

The thing is that with Sophia and Max you know that there can't be a mating bond. With Changelings and PsyxPsy/Forgotten you know there is a mating bond and that this mating bond equals happiness and soulmates etc.

So, you - or at least I - assume that everything that's not a matingbond is, when it comes to those darn shapeshifters - less than 100%. And who would settle for less when there is a mating bond/a insurance?

If there was something like a matind bond in real life.. Wasn't that the problem many had with Sienna and Hawke? The probability of her being second choice?

Yes, you're right, most people wanted Sienna/Hawke to end up with the full mating bond because it would have felt like she was 2nd choice otherwise. So there is pressure for all the stories involving the changelings to end up with a mating.

Nalini just has to clear up what the rules are. It seems like it revolves around whether the cat or wolf has made the choice and settled on the person. As in Hawke's case, the wolf wasn't keeping him from mating with Sienna since Rissa had been too young, there was no courtship, no mating dance.

So if there is another chance if the possible mate was too young and dies, why not a second chance because the possible mate isn't available (i.e. tied to/married to/in love with someone else?) We also know that the female has the last say in the mating dance . . . so what if she does say no? Mercy thought about that quite a bit in Branded by Fire, didn't she? Doesn't seem right that the woman can say no and doom the male to never finding another mate.

Yep, that's what I meant, a changeling/someone pairing that doesn't involve a mating bond, but then as pointed out, anything less than a mating bond is less than 100% for those changelings.
The thing is...mating is supposed to be special, that it's rare...but with all the mated pairs in the books, one would feel it's as rare as finding a husband/wife.^^;

In Hawke's case, it felt a 99.9% without the bond. I mean, he was committed to her, no 'out' clause, no negotiations -forever lovers kind of deal. He was determined that Sienna would feel cherished, that she won't feel the lack of what he couldn't give her, gave her his heart, placed her first above the pack...all these without actually mating, that I probably would have 'forgiven' the lack of the bond itself.

But I'm really biased when it comes to Sienna, so I don't know how I'd feel if there was no mating bond in the long run. All I know is that during the first time I read through KoS, I was pretty much satisfied with Hawke. What he did for Sienna felt more special, more 'rare' than the actual mating.

Now Riaz...perhaps it's best to reserve 'judgment', at least until his book is out. lol. But, I'm hoping he'd treat Adria the same way Hawke did, 'not my mate, but loved like one'.
I won't like Riaz at all if he keeps on feeling he's betraying/cheating on his 'mate', each time he's with Adria. Which is probably why I was hanging to the last minute that the mate he mentioned in PoP was her, not someone else...but meh. This sort of complicate things for me, I was steeling myself for the aunt/niece relationship, now comes this! T_T

I certainly hope that mating is explored more in depth in ToN. While I agree that the female has the last say in the bond, she is equally 'compelled' to accept it, she may delay the bond, but sooner or later she will eventually succumb. I guess, I just can't think of mating as one-sided, as in, only one feels strongly about it, while the other is...'tied up' with something else.^^ In other words, at this moment, I don't think Riaz knew who his mate really is until Adria, and this is if they do mate. I could be wrong of course, but it will keep for now.