Re: Heart of Obsidian book discussion thread. SPOILER HEAVY!!

[ferdy]

I finished HoO today and I loved the romance between Kaleb and Sahara. They're prob my most fave psy/changeling couple. Kaleb's love for Sahara was epic.. I honestly thought it it made Riaz's 'love' for Adria seem pathetic.

I'm glad HoO focused on the H/h instead of on other storylines/couples. I found it so much better than KoS and ToN - when I compare Kaleb/Sahara to Hawke/Sienna and Adria/Riaz the latter two couples seem so lame in comparison. Yea, I loved Kaleb's dedication and devotion to Sahara
I personally don't think any other hero in the series loves their heroine as much as Kaleb loves Sahara.

The highlight for me was seeing young Sahara and Kaleb.. it was so sweet.

I loved the charm bracelet and the charms Kaleb got for Sahara when she was missing.

I get the impression that Alice is Vasic's HEA and that Aiden's HEA will be a feisty/upbeat changeling. But who knows with Nalini.

[Roxsan]

I get the impression that Alice is Vasic's HEA and that Aiden's HEA will be a feisty/upbeat changeling. But who knows with Nalini

A feisty changeling would be an excellent match for Aden! He's so serious ALL.THE.TIME, though it makes sense given his position (leader of the Arrows) and worries (namely Vasic). Someone needs to make the dude chillax.

[Miana]

I personally don't think any other hero in the series loves their heroine as much as Kaleb loves Sahara.

So, so true. I mean, not to slam the other wonderful couples in the series, but Kaleb's love is just that intense. I literally had to remind myself to breathe a few times while reading the book!

[Bella171901]

I'm not gonna get the book before 21st of June, so
1. Are we getting at least a tiny little bitty bit of Sienna and HawkiePorkie?
2. What about Mercy and Riles?

[CassB]

Hawke is only mentioned as he is present at a meeting, nothing new and no Sienna. Mercy appears a couple times, short and sweet, but no Riley (I can't remember if he is not the previously mentioned meeting, but if he is, it is only as a body). I really did love this book, but I REALLY missed the changelings.

[ferdy]

A feisty changeling would be an excellent match for Aden! He's so serious ALL.THE.TIME, though it makes sense given his position (leader of the Arrows) and worries (namely Vasic). Someone needs to make the dude chillax.

Yea, I know not a lot (if anyone) will agree with me but I really really want that Rina (Kit's sister) girl to be Aiden's HEA.. I just liked her feisty and bratty (she's prob matured by now) attitude.. I can just imagine their banter with Rina being annoyed with Aiden's cool compsure and Aiden being ruffled by her attitude. IDK, I think it'd be funny and sweet.

[ferdy]

So, so true. I mean, not to slam the other wonderful couples in the series, but Kaleb's love is just that intense. I literally had to remind myself to breathe a few times while reading the book!

I know right, I wasn't expecting that level of love.. Especially because I found the love the heroes had for their heroines in the last couple of books (Riaz, Walker and even to an extent Hawke - the love they had for their h's didn't blow me away) largely underwhelming.
I don't usually swoon over a hero but Kaleb's 7 yr search and loyalty for his heroine was amazingly perfect. He's certainly set the bar high

[Yurice]

ick, I don't think I'll ever like Rina. She started on the wrong foot in StS with me. What with Lucas warning Dorian not to sleep with her or else she'll lead him by the nose like she did Barker. >.> Some may call that cunning, I'd say manipulative.

But I agree, a feisty changeling with Aiden would be fun to see!

[TracyTheOncer]

Loved it!!!! Kaleb and Sahara are possibly my new favorite couple, which says something because I was a huge Hawke & Sienna fan. (I keep going back & forth as to which I love more.....Right now, I love Kaleb slightly more than Hawke, but Sienna slightly more than Sahara.) As some of you have mentioned already, Kaleb's love for Sahara was epic & very intense. Out of all the heroes thus far, he's expressed it the most imo. My favorite scenes were w/ the bracelet, the childhood flashbacks (I wished there were even more of those, so cute), the "I love you" part, and their first kiss scene/discussion.

[TracyTheOncer]

ick, I don't think I'll ever like Rina. She started on the wrong foot in StS with me. What with Lucas warning Dorian not to sleep with her or else she'll lead him by the nose like she did Barker. >.> Some may call that cunning, I'd say manipulative.

But I agree, a feisty changeling with Aiden would be fun to see!

I agree with you about Rina. I mean, if she is the heroine, I'm sure Nalini will change my opinion about her, but overall I find her manipulative as well. I'm kind of hoping for Lucy instead (if it's a changeling).

[Nina]

Ok, I just finished and can I just say....

Wow.

Was not expecting it to be as good as it was. I am very picky. While I love Nalini Singh's world, I've been feeling like the last few books were getting formulaic. IMO, this book was an almost complete turn-around for her. That is a very good thing. Even the "romance-y" scenes were fresh, which I don't think she's done since... well StS.

Ok, what I liked-
1. Complete focus on the Psy world. I love the Changelings and everything, but the descriptions of their world were getting hackneyed. Instead of constantly hearing how Changelings are somehow racially 99% impervious to hurting children, racially always hot, etc., we got to see how complex of a people the Psy are. They have evil among them, yes, but they also have good... sometimes within the same individual *cough*Kaleb*cough* That makes them far more lovable to me than the Changelings... because it is more realistic.

2. Kaleb and Sahara. Everything about them, especially the equality I felt in their partnership. They were individually weak & strong, but managed to complement each other's personalities.

3. Psy politics & how Nalini Singh is addressing the division among the Psy. Very believable.

4.

Spoiler:

Minor Issues I had with the book:
1. The resurgence of some overused phrases mid-way through the book. They weren't as profuse as they have been, but there still could be less of them.

2. Un-needed explanations of tech. I'm okay with some explanations of futuristic tech (for example, mentioning cars can be driven unmanned, or are hover capable was fine in StS.) However,

Aden marked out a rough circle around the leading edge of the flames using a holo-​compatible pen

just isn't necessary. It was already mentioned it was a holo-map, I can infer the pen holo-compatible.

But those are picky, and overall I was very very pleased.

So, yeah, this was long. But I really, really loved it. I loved it even more because I wasn't expecting it. For me, it totally makes up for my disappointment with KoS and my annoyance with Cooper's mating. This may be my new favorite.

*steps off soap box*

[Yurice]

I know some people thought Hawke was a jerk at the beginning, blowing hot and cold...but it's exactly his protectiveness towards Sienna that made him that way. He believes he couldn't give her the mating bond, and he probably wants her to have the best such relationship can offer. So, aside from their age gap, Hawke was trying to be honorable so she could have her chance at mating. But when it comes to Sienna, he had discovered that his stubborn will is no match for her.

Hawke's actions had crossed over the line when he couldn't kill Sienna to save his pack. I cannot imagine the darkness he'd be pushed into had anyone died from Sienna's fire. But it would be much worse if he killed her with his own hands instead. Mates come first.
Hawke loved his pack, but Sienna comes first, and he didn't know they're mates at that time even.
Yes, it's a dark, twisted way of devotion, but honor no longer means anything if it meant hurting Sienna.

Ok, let met stop there before I hijack HoO with my ramblings of Hawke. lol!

True, Kaleb had shown his devotion and loyalty for Sahara in seven years, it certainly is dizzying, to see such loyalty, such devotion. Fierce love.
But it could be because she was the only one who had befriended him, the only who who cared, who showed concern.
If things had been different, would he be still this devoted to Sahara? Maybe, maybe not.
It could be because they've met as children that Kaleb was 'saved'.
Can he trust anyone if they've only just met? Would he have cared for Sahara the same if he had just seen her?

Not trying to cause a riot here, just my personal thoughts.^^

I loved Kaleb's story, he was exactly as I'd imagined he'd be. Harsh, lethal yet fiercely protective of his girl.
I think it's quite strange that Sahara emerged relatively unscathed from her captivity, I expected she'd retain her soul, but the darkness has 'touched' her.
Then, there's that scene when their minds connected. Light and Dark.
I have a thing for heroines who are so 'pure' no darkness can stain them, but...I'm willing to overlook this in Sahara's case. Simply because she makes Kaleb happy.

[Miana]

Now that I've had a bit of time to think about it (plus the time to reread my favorite scenes!), I have to say that Sahara really is a bit of a Mary Sue. I actually think Nalini does this to some extent with all the heroines, but Sahara is the Mary-est Sue of them all.

This isn't a bad thing, IMHO, because Nalini does make it work, but I also think Sahara's just too "blessed."

Think about it - she's quite a lot like Sascha, but at least Sascha truly struggled with Silence in the first book. Sascha was deeply hurt by her dysfunctional relationship with Nikita and gave up PsyNet to be with Lucas. It probably helps that Sascha is a few years older than Sahara, and is more "adult" if that makes sense.

Heck, Katya and Talin are my least favorite heroines, but they both at least struggled with the abuse they'd gone through. Talin was really upset by her "fugues" and sleeping around, and Katya couldn't get her memory back until a long while later.

Faith struggled with her sister's murder and her impending insanity (up to that point, all Fs went mad). Brenna had her trauma at Santano Enrique's hands, yet we don't see Sahara dwell on HER trauma at Santano's hands as much as Brenna did. Sophia was at the breaking point when she met Max, and Ashaya had to worry about her sister and child.

Mercy and Indigo didn't have any trauma to work through, but we saw them as strong, competent kickass women with their family and friends. Even Adria was pretty competent, and worried about her lack of mating bond with Riaz.

I mean, Sienna is even younger than Sahara, but we still see her have wonderful interactions with Judd, Walker, Marlee, Toby, Evie, etc. They all treat her like a person, and they don't hesitate to speak up if she's doing something wrong. But everyone just kind of lets Sahara have her own way.

Now I'm sounding like I hate Sahara, which I don't. I actually think she's a good character, but she really does have it a bit too easy, IMHO. She has her shadow ability, which was so hyped up, except she won't really use (of course, because she's so good). She can speak ALL languages. She's highly intelligent. She can dance. She's pretty. She has the deadliest man in the entire world at her beck and call, and he'll teleport her anywhere. Even her trauma was hand-waved to a certain extent, thanks to the labyrinth dissolving at a miraculous speed (but what about the emotional trauma??).

What REALLY makes HoO a great book is Kaleb No surprise there! He takes over the entire book. Aden and the Arrows were completely great, and minor characters like Anthony were strong.

[Yurice]

Well, when I first read the spoilers about who the heroine was, I thought her name Sahara NightStar sounded Mary Sue-ish.
At least, it's actually Sahara Kyriakus. aha! xD

Yes, I think so too, that everything went so perfect for her, no struggles no nothing. Everything is being taken care of, so all she got to do is just figure out what she wanted to do with her life, aside from being with Kaleb of course.^^

Which is probably why I'm still indifferent to her.

Kaleb alone could have carried the whole book for me, but I also want to see him happy.

Now there's one thing that's bugging my mind. When Aden said to Kaleb he's not a medic. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was Aden who said that, it was that part before Kaleb showed them his link with Sahara.

What does that mean??? Why is Aden designated as M? I'm suddenly excited to know more, if Nalini will follow this, does Aden have an ability that isn't classified? >

[Miana]

It's because Ming overlooked Aden to a huge degree. Aden is wrongly classified as a lower-grade telepath whereas he's much higher on the Gradient than he appears to be - same for Walker. Aden thinks that Walker taught him how to hide the real strength of his telepathy and how to use it.

Aden was chosen for the Arrow squad because his parents were both Arrows, so Ming just put him to work as a field medic, never really understanding just how potent and dangerous Aden's telepathy really is.

Plus, Aden says that he can infiltrate people's shields - i.e. like he got Henry Scott's location from that medic. He was able to save the sanity of some other Arrows by using the telepathic tricks Walker taught him.

So that's what I take it to mean

Back to Sahara ... I wish Kaleb had been paired up with a tougher-minded Psy heroine with actual scars. Ahhhh well.

[Yurice]

But shouldn't Ming be suspicious why Aden is the Arrow leader if he's not a Tk, low grade Tp?

I like how Kaleb thinks of them as partners. He's not making the same mistake Ming did.

I like heroines with scars too, but for Kaleb's sake, I'm just happy that Sahara isn't wicked, control freak or worse.^^;
But given a choice, yes, I would have liked someone with more...err, 'flavor'. ahah! xD

[Miana]

I got the impression that Aden wasn't acknowledged as the Arrow leader back when they were still following Ming. In the earlier books, Ming is acknowledged as the leader of the Arrows because he used to be one of them. This is what Judd tells Brenna in CbI - the Arrows are under Ming's direct command.

However, the smarter Arrows grew disenchanted under Ming's leadership (i.e. Judd, Aden, Vasic), when they realized Ming was using them as his personal assassins instead of actually using them to protect the Psy. That's partly why Judd defected because he realized Ming had him do a hit on Ming's enemies.

It's likely Ming felt "secure" with Aden because he thought Aden was a lower-grade telepath. He had Aden in charge of overseeing the Arrows on Jax. But this actually put Aden in contact with ALL the Arrows and how he earned their loyalty. You can see seeds of discontent with the Arrows when Vasic says he's not a team player and he teams up with Anthony in book 5, I think. He and Aden help to save Dorian's life.

Later, the Arrows decide to put feelers out to Kaleb, so that he can become their official leader. Anthony and Nikita talk about how Kaleb is on the verge of taking the Arrows from Ming. It's not until Book 11 (ToN) that Ming realizes he's officially lost the Arrows. So it's like Aden gradually becomes the squad's unofficial leader while Kaleb becomes the official leader, so to speak.

[TheFLuff]

The dangerous thing with Aden is the fact that, aside from Walker and Vasic, nobody truly knows what he does, or can do.

Aden is a Ninja telepath. He sneaks into poeples Shields, shadows them.

Heck, he magaed to sneak into KALEBS shield, without triggering any of the traps AND managed to vanish, after alerting Kaleb to the fact, that he was inside his shields.

Someone please think about this.

ADEN SNUCK INTO KALEB´S SHIELDS!

Finally reading btw

[Nina]

While I agree that all of the female leads have a bit of Mary-Sue in them, I don't think Sahara was any more or less Mary-Sueish than the others. She didn't seem overly good to me - all of her saintly actions were less because she was virtuous and thinking of the world and more about "Crap, don't fall all the way into the abyss, Kaleb!" So in a way she was incredibly selfish...

The only Mary-Sueish things about her were that she was incredibly gifted and hot... but almost all heroines are in books, especially in the Psy series.

[losellers]

Now there's one thing that's bugging my mind. When Aden said to Kaleb he's not a medic. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was Aden who said that, it was that part before Kaleb showed them his link with Sahara.

What does that mean??? Why is Aden designated as M? I'm suddenly excited to know more, if Nalini will follow this, does Aden have an ability that isn't classified? >

Personally, I think this means that Aden is sayting that he's not JUST a medic, or it's not his strongest power. He can seal some injuries (ex: Dorian after he had been shot) so he is an M, he is just stronger in Tp than he was measured at. I don't know if Kaleb is aware of this or not...at least I don't remember reading anywhere in HoO where he said that he realized how strong Aden was. (When Aden snuck into Kaleb's shields to get his attention, Kaleb didn't know who it was that had made it that far, just that one of the Arrows had.)

[Guest]

Still reading. Just popped in to share a laugh over pupcubs.

[tlgopal969]

I love Kaleb and Sahara! I agree that other's in the series pale in comparison, not that I didn't love the other couples too! Kaleb's devotion was devastating. Especially since he's Silent, or at least not recognizing or understanding the emotions he was experiencing. He kept trying to explain away his physical reactions to the emotions and I thought it was funny and endearing.

Someone posted that they thought maybe he was only that way because she was the first person who cared about/saved him, or because they met when they were children, and that things might/might not have been different otherwise.

I disagree. I think the reason was because she never once let him down, never lied or broke a promise, and from the flashbacks obviously loved him even then and made sure he always knew someone it.

She paid attention when no one else did, caring about what happened to him before they even really knew each other. I think it made a big impact when she continued even though she wasn't asking for anything in return. So I don't think it's that she was the first to care, but the way she cared. I think that probably got him through a lot of Enrique's tortures.

A couple things I really liked about Sahara was that her previously thought foresight was actually backsight, as we already went there, and with a Cardinal too! But my favorite was her 'shadow' ability. Not even that particular ability but that a new one was shown. Kaleb definitely needed someone unique.

Really, the only thing I didn't like is the lack of previous characters, especially the Snowdancers and of course that it ended too soon!!

[Yurice]

Someone posted that they thought maybe he was only that way because she was the first person who cared about/saved him, or because they met when they were children, and that things might/might not have been different otherwise.

I disagree. I think the reason was because she never once let him down, never lied or broke a promise, and from the flashbacks obviously loved him even then and made sure he always knew someone it.

She paid attention when no one else did, caring about what happened to him before they even really knew each other. I think it made a big impact when she continued even though she wasn't asking for anything in return. So I don't think it's that she was the first to care, but the way she cared. I think that probably got him through a lot of Enrique's tortures.

A couple things I really liked about Sahara was that her previously thought foresight was actually backsight, as we already went there, and with a Cardinal too! But my favorite was her 'shadow' ability. Not even that particular ability but that a new one was shown. Kaleb definitely needed someone unique.

Really, the only thing I didn't like is the lack of previous characters, especially the Snowdancers and of course that it ended too soon!!

Sorry, I don't get which part you're disagreeing with. It's as if you just expanded what I said and just added that she continued caring for him even without asking anything in return. O_o;

My original point is a 'what if?'. Would Kaleb be this devoted to her if she hadn't shown him kindness when they were kids? You know, before the 'poison' of Enrique really set in? Would Kaleb be able to bond with anyone he had just met, regardless of how caring or compassionate they are?
I'm not questioning her kindness or devotion to him now, but an alternate world where they hadn't met as children. If Sahara and Kaleb were to meet now, in the current world, instead of in the past. :3

I still think that if they hadn't met as kids, Kaleb would have been too far gone into the darkness for Sahara's 'light' to reach him.

Sahara's ability to me is like giving someone Xray vision, seeing people naked even with their clothes on, only this time, it's people's thoughts.
To me, that's a violation of another person, a breach of privacy. Sure, she's not going to cause harm with her ability, because she is 'good'. But really, it's not an ability I can admire either. >.>;

Not trying to antagonize anyone, just my personal thoughts. I'm glad people like Sahara, I want Nalini to continue being successful with her books, she remains my favorite romance author, and I hope she'll keep writing until the sky falls. xD
But, as a character, Sahara doesn't make it to my favorite list, is all. :3

[Yurice]

Now there's one thing that's bugging my mind. When Aden said to Kaleb he's not a medic. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was Aden who said that, it was that part before Kaleb showed them his link with Sahara.

What does that mean??? Why is Aden designated as M? I'm suddenly excited to know more, if Nalini will follow this, does Aden have an ability that isn't classified? >

Personally, I think this means that Aden is sayting that he's not JUST a medic, or it's not his strongest power. He can seal some injuries (ex: Dorian after he had been shot) so he is an M, he is just stronger in Tp than he was measured at. I don't know if Kaleb is aware of this or not...at least I don't remember reading anywhere in HoO where he said that he realized how strong Aden was. (When Aden snuck into Kaleb's shields to get his attention, Kaleb didn't know who it was that had made it that far, just that one of the Arrows had.)

That makes sense. :3
I'm still rearranging my thoughts on Aden. It's all scattered right now! xD

But yeah! To know that he had managed to sneak into Kaleb's shields. Aden is firing up my blood! rawr!

[syaffolee]

My original point is a 'what if?'. Would Kaleb be this devoted to her if she hadn't shown him kindness when they were kids? You know, before the 'poison' of Enrique really set in? Would Kaleb be able to bond with anyone he had just met, regardless of how caring or compassionate they are?
I'm not questioning her kindness or devotion to him now, but an alternate world where they hadn't met as children. If Sahara and Kaleb were to meet now, in the current world, instead of in the past. :3

I still think that if they hadn't met as kids, Kaleb would have been too far gone into the darkness for Sahara's 'light' to reach him.

Sahara's ability to me is like giving someone Xray vision, seeing people naked even with their clothes on, only this time, it's people's thoughts.
To me, that's a violation of another person, a breach of privacy. Sure, she's not going to cause harm with her ability, because she is 'good'. But really, it's not an ability I can admire either. >.>;

Anything's possible in fiction. Realistically, I think it would be highly unlikely that anyone would be able to redeem Kaleb if he had never met Sahara when he was younger. But if he were, it would not be the same story. It would be far darker.

Sahara's ability never really bothered me. I think it's because she was born with the ability. She didn't choose it. What she does have a choice over is how to use or not use that ability. I view Sahara as a character who is in direct opposition to Enrique. Enrique also had the ability (not the same ability but there are similarities) to invade other people's thoughts, but unlike Sahara, he chose to do the worst. It's sort of a metaphor. We are all born with the capacity to do creepy, evil things. But whether we choose to do that or not is the crux of the matter.

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