Other Awesomely Awesome Books We've Read or Want to Read.

Yes Lilith Saintcrow I find her writing quite different .Her style I mean and I find I am enjoying it more than Faith Hunter's Yellowrock whose constant fetish for the smell of things while in beast form drove me bonkus.

Those other books are Science Fiction. I love that genre. I think I will revisit Ringworld and perhaps even Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars in audio form. Good readers make such a difference. Although I am sure Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon will still confuse me even if I get a good reader like Clement Frued of "Just a Minute" to read it. My god I used to love his voice he could probably make me come with just his voice.

@Patricia
Yes, it's brilliant. Seriously I have so much love for this trilogy and these characters. Check out chapter 1.

I'm just starting Betrayal, the second in a Lili St. Crow series. I listened to the first one on audiobook and liked it, but it didn't hold my attention very well. I got Betrayal for free, so I'll see if reading instead of listening works better for her style.

@ Nina
Funny, Friday's Child was my first Heyer and remains my favourite. It is quite different from some of her other books though. There aren't many writers who could make me love as foolish a hero and heroine as Sherry and Hero, so kudos to Heyer. I really liked Arrabella the first time I read it, but upon rereading it I was uncomfortable with how patronising he always seems towards her. I love The Unknown Ajax, though. She blends drama, humour and romance so well.

What other period romance authors do you like? The UF/PR I read is mostly YA, which is not to everyone's taste, so I'm not sure I can help with recs there, but we might be able to swap favourites in period romance. Have you read Loretta Chase?

As well as Betrayal I'm listened to Julia Spencer Fleming's One was a Soldier and reading A S Byatt's The Children's Book. Uh, not at the same time, though.

I adore Loretta Chase. She writes wonderfully her humour is brilliant. God I loved Vere in Last Hellion. I lover Heyer too when I read her ages ago.

Ahahahahaha. xDD On the phone.
"Hey, Sonia?" - "OH MY GOD, YES! YEES!"

Sycorax - for some weird reason I don't keep up with authors names when it comes to historicals. Was Loretta Chase the author of "Lord of Scoundrels" ? I'm not big on YA Romance/UF/PNR - I don't think it is all bad, just that there is so much crap in the genre that it's hard to find the good ones... I'm lazy

I appreciate Heyer's ability to make foolish characters lovable, too. I enjoyed Kitty & Freddy in Cotillion and loved Amanda in Sprig Muslin. But something about Sherry's selfishness just irked me. I liked Hero, though. Most authors don't write innocents very well but Heyer certainly pulled it off.

I really liked Arrabella the first time I read it, but upon rereading it I was uncomfortable with how patronising he always seems towards her.

I think she got the better of him for the most part, though. He's patronizing, she mocks his advances. He's patronizing, she makes him take in a stray/liberate a chimney boy/look after her wayward brother, etc. That's what being patronizing towards Arabella gets you, I guess, lol.

I think my main problem with Friday's Child was that I started it after finishing The Unknown Ajax. Hugo is just too awesome.

by Nina
I'm not big on YA Romance/UF/PNR - I don't think it is all bad, just that there is so much crap in the genre that it's hard to find the good ones

Agree. you have to read dozens just to find one decent author. But it is like that in general, not just these genres.

Jelena wrote:Agree. you have to read dozens just to find one decent author. But it is like that in general, not just these genres.

Yeah, it is hard to find good books/authors throughout all genres these days but I've been noticing that it seems to be even more difficult in specific ones - YA especially (all of its sub-genres) as well as regular SF and PNR (what do call non-kid/YA books? Adult books? That sounds awfully... squidgy )

Maybe I'm just not good at weeding through those three types of books. I mean, I can go into the kids section and look at covers, book names, author names, etc. and have a good idea whether it's crap or not. The only book I've ever been surprised by was Rick Riordan's The Lightning Thief, which I thought was going to be meh and turned out awesome. *gazes fondly at own collection of Riordan books*

But outside of children's literature I am so stupid about finding good books! It feels like an accident every time I come across a good one. Especially lately. Grrr...

I find reading the first chapter in a book shop can be a good way of judging quality. Unfortunately, you occasionally find a book that's not good enough to buy but you want to finish anyway and you lose several hours sitting on the floor of a book shop. That happened to me with Twilight and City of Bones. These days I try to stick to online excerpts, as they're much less dangerous.

My favourite YA urban fantasy/paranormal/dystopia books are:

The Demon's Lexicon - Sarah Rees Brennan
White Cat - Holly Black
Tithe, Valiant and Ironside - Holly Black
Sunshine - Robin McKinley
Uglies - Scott Westerfield
Peeps - Scott Westerfield
Magic or Madness - Justine Larbalestier
How to Ditch your Fairy - Justine Larbalestier
Morganville Vampires series - Rachel Caine
The Hunger Games - Suzanne Collins

I've just finished the sequel to Lili St. Crow's Strange Angels. It wasn't bad (though the heroine spent way too much time blushing), but I am getting so sick of love triangles in YA paranormals. It feels so contrived, as if the author is deliberately trying to capture the whole Team Edward/Team Jacob fan phenomenon.

Nina, Loretta Chase did write Lord of Scoundrels, though I preferred its sequel, The Last Hellion, which Kitarad mentioned. She's the closest thing I've found to Heyer.

What kind of genre is dystopia ? Never heard about it before.

@Jelena - Dystopia is where you have rigid government control that isn't, uh, nice. Think 1984 or the Uglies books or The Matrix. Maybe the Psy government could count as a dystopian construct... *ponders with Holmes-ish pipe between teeth*

@Sycorax - waahhhh! I didn't know Lord of Scoundrels had a sequel!

Nina wrote:Maybe the Psy government could count as a dystopian construct... *ponders with Holmes-ish pipe between teeth*

It hadn't occurred to me, but I think the Psy Council is totally a dystopian construct! I wouldn't describe the series as dystopian, though. A great deal of the action is set within the Changeling communities, which are affected by the Council, but not ruled by it. There are also so many characters and subplots, and dystopias are generally characterised by the struggle of one individual with their government. Anyone read Cory Doctorow's Little Brother? It's another really good YA dystopia, though it's effectively set in the present.

Remember the scene in Lord of Scoundrels, where they meet a friend of Dain's on their wedding night who refuses to believe Jessica is his wife and starts brawl? This is his story. Loretta Chase pairs him with a social reforming journalist. Their scenes are both hilarious and hot. I also like Lord Perfect, Not Quite a Lady and Last Night's Scandal.

Nina wrote:Maybe the Psy government could count as a dystopian construct...

When I reviewed the books and tried to tag them (Future | Present | Past; Alternate Universe; Dystopian | Utopian; YA | Adult; Fantasy etc) I thought about that, too.

Yeah, the Psy books have several different aspects of different genres simply because there are several distinct people groups/governments in them. I wonder if that is always a marker of Urban Fantasy...

Also, this got me thinking about books featuring dystopia. Are they always futuristic and/or cyberpunk? Is that part of the dystopia definition? I can't think of any books (with dystopia in them) that don't focus heavily on computers or machines, etc.

I like the German wiki-definition. (And that's not happening often oô)

Eine Dystopie oder Anti-Utopie ist eine Geschichte, die in einer fiktiven Gesellschaft spielt, die sich zum Negativen entwickelt hat, und stellt somit einen Gegenentwurf zu Thomas Morus’ Utopia dar. (..) Aber auch Endzeit-Geschichten sind eine Form der Dystopie. Häufig wollen die Autoren dystopischer Geschichten mit Hilfe eines pessimistischen Zukunftsbildes auf bedenkliche Entwicklungen der Gegenwart aufmerksam machen und vor deren Folgen warnen.

Eine dystopische Gesellschaft ist in der Regel charakterisiert durch eine autoritäre oder totalitäre Regierungsform bzw. eine Form repressiver sozialer Kontrolle. Typische Charakteristika einer Dystopie: Dem Individuum sind durch mechanisierte Superstaaten jegliche Freiheiten genommen, die Kommunikation der Menschen untereinander ist eingeschränkt oder anderweitig gestört und das Bewusstsein der eigenen Geschichte oder eigener Werte gekappt.

Dystopia (Anti-Utopia), shows a fictitious society and the negative effects of it's development, blah, authors paint a pessimistic picture of the future blabla, want to call our attention to the things they write about/want to warn us etc pp.

Then there's a part that's very similiar to the English wiki:

.. is the idea of a society in a repressive and controlled state. Dystopian societies feature different kinds of repressive social control systems, various forms of active and passive coercion. Ideas and works about dystopian societies often explore the concept of humans abusing technology and humans individually and collectively coping, or not being able to properly cope with technology that has progressed far more rapidly than humanity has been able to evolve. Dystopian societies are often imagined as police states, with unlimited power over the citizens.

Is it not the opposite of Utopia so it probably encompasses a quite wide and relaxed definition and could perhaps include many books. I am terrible at anything philosophical so I will quit while I am ahead.

I started a book today I had been meaning to read .Kitty and the Midnight Hour by Carrie Vaughn. I can understand the appeal of writing books with a total true pack feel and animal domination type of book but it makes me so damn angry I can hardly breath. I know why she is writing it like this; making the pack leader have all this power almost like some weird cult leader that can control any female and have sex with them when they feel like but it makes me hate how powerless the female who is small that she has to cow and take it. It makes me angry but at the same time I understand in the animal kingdom this must be how it is. This is one of the reasons the Lora Leigh books turned me off. I heard that later Kitty becomes more able too look after herself but right now I am feeling as impotent as her.

I am not saying that women should rule from a position of weakness this is true I suppose in packs where animals instincts make sense but we are also human. I guess I really love Nalini for at least making sure the females get treated well but even then there are moments when Nate is so dominant and so is Lucas by forcing their mates to stand behind them or not allowing them to do what they want and the women have to cajole and change their mind. This is why I respect Cat and Bones she is an equal in that relationship although that awful book with Gregor had them making some terrible decisions on both their sides that made so very sad I can still understand where Bones was coming from and even though I could throttle Cat I got why she did what she did too.

Books where the werewolf females are treated so poorly and have to look down and act so subservient make me mad but at the same time they are wolves after all (Pat Briggs alpha omega books I cried reading that one). I am trying to make myself come to terms with this but I really dislike books that take away a women's right to decide because the pack leader can make them do what they want. I question the rightness of it and although I want to also read it to see how Kitty handles it I am so damn angry right now I had to come here and vent. They are not human I get that too. It is cruelty I can see that exist even in human society when you think about how women are treated in societies of old and even in some Muslim countries now . You exchange protection for the right to be bullied and abused by those in power and it does not change just because it is a wolf story and not a human story.

Lora Leigh though took it a step further by making the women weep from sexual need so bad it would make them go crazy in the couple of books I read before I gave her up and mind you it was not all the sex. I can skip sex scenes as happily as anyone else if the story is good but she made it so demeaning in that first book the whole unable to control yourself thing that I got very sick very fast then the second book sealed it and I swear to you it was not the sex it was the premise. So why am I bellyaching here ? Just get over it and stop reading is what you are saying to yourself reading this or did you give up a couple of paragraphs ago. I am trying to expand my reading is all and trying to read books that make me uncomfortable for the payoff and there better be one. There is also the argument that one cannot see how she is going to grow if she does not start at the very bottom. Damn it all though it is so hard to read but I am going to finish it.

Yea, the opposite is the.. Um, in German it's "Eutopie".

And as for the rest you've said.. YES. I didn't read Kitty and the Midnight Hour yet, but.. ugh. :/ I know what you're talking about.

I didn't like Kitty and the Midnight Hour either. I mean, I understand (like you said) why the author wrote that way and what she was trying to convey. However, I think she'd need to be writing under a different genre in order to pull it off - PNR just made it over-sexed and icky... to me at least. First person narrative isn't my cup of tea either, so that probably didn't make me go into the book with a good attitude. Shame on me.

As for Patricia Briggs... I am a bad PNR fan. I don't like her books, especially Alpha and Omega. I know everyone under the sun loves her, but I just can't. *prepares for rotten tomatoes*

Nina, no I didn't like Alpha and Omega either. Many people told me it's just the German translation, but I just don't like it. As for Mercy Thompson. Well I liked it but I didn't, too. It's not bad, but all the hype? No. I don't even think it's one of the best UF, like so many claim. It isn't. - I guess I felt kind of forced to like it more. And here you have the reason why I need to re-rate all of the books I read so far.

A friend of mine rated the book 5 stars. - Um, Kitty, I mean. I asked her why yesterday night. Soo curious now. :>

I finished Numbers: The Chaos (2nd book) by Rachel Ward and.. well. I didn't manage to finish the first book in time and needed to review the second one (in Germany the publishers handle it differently. Kristi, The Story Siren, told me that in the US you don't ever need to read or review a book you got for review. Well, in Germany we do, it seems. :>) so I was kind of lost in the beginning. And it was too slow. Idk, but I didn't like the pace.

Someone read it?

Oh, I finished Hush, Hush and Crescendo some days ago, didn't really enjoy this series, either. Clarity by Kim Harrington seemed to be good, although more suspense than paranormal sometimes lol.

And oh my f'cking God, did any of you read the Darkest Power series by Kelley Armstrong? I want to have sex with the books.

When I first read Pat Briggs I started with Mercy and I liked the coyote angle and her small body in the face of all the wolves about her. What I liked about the books was her focus on story. She had several very interesting characters that she developed over several books. She had very complex relationships and what I loved about her was unlike many other books this author did not treat all humans like food or inconsequential or only important as a love interest or part of that family network that had to be tolerated. She paid attention to them and similarly her characters did too. My favourite is Ben, Stefan and the gay wolf Warren. Her characters are very well drawn. She spends time in her books exploring relationships other than the main ones ,perhaps she can because there is not a lot of sex or lovemaking so she has those extra pages.

I am now at the part of the book where Kitty is beginning to fight back. Damn it all I am so proud of her right now. Considering how horribly downtrodden she was before this thing where she fights the wolf that turned her made me punch my fists in the air and say "you go girl" okay not true but you know what I mean. It is true though if she had not started out so pathetic she cannot make these gradual changes work.

In a way I have been getting a little fed up of reading about all these kickass vampire hunters or females who are wolves who fight so well this is a change from what I am used to reading. Vulnerability and fear from just being weak which normally only humans in all these books I have been reading are like. Humans before they become someone else's mate and is therefore protected are like this but being already part of a pack and learning to live in it as a submissive is hard to read and I want to know how she breaks free. I am hoping they don't turn her into some vengeful werewolf bent on domination though.

Is that still the first book? *curious* :>

In a way I have been getting a little fed up of reading about all these kickass vampire hunters or females who are wolves who fight so well this is a change from what I am used to reading. Vulnerability and fear from just being weak which normally only humans in all these books I have been reading are like. Humans before they become someone else's mate and is therefore protected are like this but being already part of a pack and learning to live in it as a submissive is hard to read and I want to know how she breaks free. I am hoping they don't turn her into some vengeful werewolf bent on domination though.

I second that.

Yeah, I third it.

Especially since I get the feeling from those books that unless you can wield a gun/katana/broadsword and are a black belt/natural adept in some martial arts with the amazing ability to come up with scathing retorts to uber-hot alpha-dudes you are a worthless piece of anti-feminist crap.

So according to that... I'd suck at life.

P.S. - apologies to the Germans on the board for the uber thing up there.

I use "uber", too. - And I have no idea why.
Perhaps I'm too lazy to move my pinky finger from [P] to the right (ü). And now I just noticed that I need to clean my keyboard. -_- Mhe.

Especially since I get the feeling from those books that unless you can wield a gun/katana/broadsword and are a black belt/natural adept in some martial arts with the amazing ability to come up with scathing retorts to uber-hot alpha-dudes you are a worthless piece of anti-feminist crap.

So according to that... I'd suck at life.

This is like.. Yes. I think it's sad that authors tend to write their books like that. And it's not like only PNR/UF authors write books this way. There are a several YA authors that are even worse.

Yes still the first book. The story's very different from others I have read. The way she develops it is very unique. You get a perspective not often explored. I can say the book is good but not one I would reread. What happened to her even before she got turned and after is bad. I am not able to adequately describe the feeling I feel when I watch her struggle and humiliate herself. Yet she is growing stronger I think I want to read the subsequent books. Am definitely hooked and that is disturbing what does that say about me ?

K done with it. There were a lot of loose ends making for future books I guess and I was not happy with what happened but I can get why it went the way it did. She was still very weak and she could not have prevailed. Lot of sadness but the growth was gradual and I am happy with that. I will be reading the second book.

@ Patricia, just out of curiosity...did you read the novella that started the Alpha and Omega series? If you didn't I think you should...it really gives you the foundation of where the heroine is coming from in terms of character growth...you might be surprised and actually enjoy where the series is going.